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What is "immersiveness" in audio experience ?

I experienced immersiveness 2 times , one with headphone and one with my acoutic room/speakers...
 
I will define acoustically "immersiveness as a rightful balanced ratio between the "sound source" perceived factor (ASW) and the "listener envelopment" felt factor (LV) , this ratio( ASW/LV ) implicate also that the timbre experience is right to begin with , that the distortion rate is low already and that these two factors are already settled, then if imaging is optimally differentiated and the soundstage dimensions may VARY according to each album recording situation and is not fixed once for all ... If each sound sources own his own volume in space and is not reduced to be a small surface,which i called the holographical factor then Immersiveness conditions are there...
 
I will not for now enter in these acoustic detailed explanation as i experienced them concretely, i used these precise acoustic words in the context of my experiments and experience...In my room or with my headphone...I am not an acoustician... Only someone who want top high quality experience for the least money...If money was not a problem i would had never study and work without end which so much time investment  with acoustic experiments and listening experiments... Luckily i had no money... 😊
 
I will now give a more subjective definition of "immersiveness" :
 
In any activity, when by repetition, learning,meditation, optimal set  conditions, forgetting everything else, we go through the ACT of perception or through the GESTURE as fluid with pure grace , forgetting the ego desire, fears, and hopes , ONE with the experience, in the ectasy of presence without being located in or out, here or there,this is "immersiveness...
 
I experienced it when the sound was good at the end of a long process, finally, one time after my speakers/room where completed and under acoustic control; one time with a well designed headphone, after 6 months of optimization experiments...
 
Now I forgot "sound" each time i listen music ...Only music matter ... And there is no more the necessary  habit who kill gradually  the first marvellous impressions ever... Each time is a new "first time" with any albums, and no upgrade appear meaningfull, even if for sure improved upgrading is always possible for the better... But when you are more than happy, "better gear " keep his meaning but lost his appeal...
 
I discovered that when i was "fatigued" with my music in the past , it was not so much the habitual and repetition of the same  music  the problem, but the "sound" defects which was so bad and  my focus on sound improvement so big it troubled and destructed the beginning of  my perceptive immersion in music...
 
Now any album is an acoustic and musical miracle and we cannot be used to miracles anymore than we cannot be used to true love ...
 
For sure what i said has a meaning for normal life day to day...
 
 If you live in a concentration camp , a bad recording sound of a Mozart piano concerto will put you in ectasy, nevermind the "sound"....
 
Then we audiophiles   we ask for something "more" than just music as usual...
It is not because we prefer good sound to good music, it is because we love music too much and felt very deep his impact, especially if the soundfield is optimal....
 
 

 

 

128x128mahgister
hilde45's avatar
hilde45
4,784 posts
 

If you will permit me to comment on something delicate. This is just my opinion and maybe I am wrong but...this is a lot to take in.

If you want to start a discussion, I suggest shorter posts with a clear focus or two and a question. Then, let other people add their comments before you comment further.

If you just want to use Audiogon as a place to publish your thoughts, you can do that, but you won't likely get a lot of replies. 

Again, just my experience.

mahgister's avatar
mahgister OP
12,555 posts
 

For sure you are right as always...

But i had the habit sometimes to spoke as if i was speaking to a friend, giving my most intimate thoughts instead of writing for a public crowd...

You are right for sure...

I apologize then for being "selfish" and forgetting that this is a public space...

But my goal was to give to someone, at least one, my thought and waiting for his reply and thoughts, and i received one already  by private mail, because it is a also "delicate" subject the way i described it... Then reaching at least a friend and reading his interesting answer my thread can die, if no one else dare to answer by his personal experience ....

As i said i came back here because i love people and sometimes i forgot that it is a public space, not a private space at my disposal for sure...

 

jjss49's avatar
Ag insider logo xs@2x
jjss49
6,609 posts
 

+1 @hilde45

less is more

more is less -- much much less in this case

 

mahgister's avatar
mahgister OP
12,555 posts
 

I am the first who said so after Hilde45 post...That he was right...

But the content of a post is more interesting , if there is a content, than the number of words in the post as suggested by the second poster here ...Anyone is free to read or not my thread anyway ...

i think that i proposed a content to discuss...an "acoustical" precise content, a "musical" content and an interesting revelatory historical story which goes with it ...

Now criticizing my long post goes nowhere , each one of us has his individuality, right or wrong...

And i am in the habit here most of the times to criticize content, not people for the sake of criticizing them ...

And it takes very good reason to criticize a thread started by someone in good faith ...

Hilde45 critic is right... My text is not ideally suited to appeal the crowd here...

But suggesting that my opening thread is too long and that i must "shorten " it is not acceptable for me as OP...

Because there is a content dificult to explain and a complex content to allude to in the objective acoustic dimension and in the subjective experience ......

I am interested by posters who will be able to communicate their own thoughts about this complex matter ...

But for sure many people are not used to face complex problems, i then apologize if my thread ask for their brain to work too hard...But they can pass over it .. 😁

 

ghdprentice
6,366 posts
 

I understand what you are going for here. From my experience I would go at it from a different direction. To me poor rhythm and pace is the major factor that prevents immersion. You can have incredibly holography without immersion. So, for me, the thing that really draws me in is the musicality… so, for me Audio Research and Sonus Faber versus Rowland and Wilson for instance. Then add on top of that add good imaging and other characteristics.

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