@jasonbourne71 , just don't smoke while your doing it:-) Really, what I use is a fine artist brush which I trimmed the bristles back about 1/2 way to make them a bit stiffer. The longer handle makes it easier to use than brushes with short handles and you can brush any old which way without hurting anything. Having lost one stylus to the ozone, using anything but water or Lyra's stylus cleaning fluid makes me nervous as you do not want to do anything to weaken the glue.
The "Very Best Record Cleaning Formulation"
The "Very Best Record Cleaning Formulation"
I am providing this formulation for all who are interested in the very best, and can be proven and demonstrated to be the "Very Best". It can easily be made from available ingredients. On the surface, it appears to be very simple. However, it is based on extensive complex chemistry along with precise mathematical calculations and verifiable data.
You may use it with absolute confidence and be truly assured that it is beyond doubt the "Very Best". You may use it for your personal needs. Or, archival entities may use it for their purposes with confidence. Or, you may choose to start an enterprise that makes and packages quantities as either a "ready-to-use" or a "Semi-concentrated" version for sale and distribution knowing that nothing better exists. You have my blessings and encouragement with one condition. And, that is, that the pricing represents a "fair margin", and, not an obscene gouging, typical for such products.
Initially, I had prepared a presentation that briefly introduced myself, and provided the thought processes, design parameters, and the necessary basics of chemistry, physics, and mathematics to assure you and allow you to be absolutely confident in this formulation. I made a considerable effort to keep it as simple, but, also as thorough enough to achieve this confidence. However, that presentation entailed 5,239 words, typical of such a requirement, however, unacceptable in length by this website forum.
I have no option other than to offer the formulation as a 100% parts by weight version suitable to produce 1 Kilogram of the cleaner, and, invite you to question me about any aspect of the formulation.
Professionally, I am a Chemist, more specifically a Polyurethane Chemist. I have a Doctorate in Chemistry as well as two other Doctorates and a M.B.A.. I held prominent positions in significant corporations before being encouraged to start our (wife and I) manufacturing facility servicing those I previously worked for. We started, owned, and fully operated this business. We eventually obtained 85+% Market Share in our sector in Medical, Automotive, Sporting Goods, and Footwear areas before retirement.
The Audio Industry is extremely technical and many brilliant minds have contributed their talents over the decades in order that we may enjoy music today as we choose. Like many other technical industries, those of lesser minds and values invade the arena with their "magical" inspired revelations and offer their "magical" ingredients and items to all at extremely high prices. They promise that if only we are willing to part with our money - they can provide these items to you that make your audio system sound as if the orchestra, or vocalist, is in your room with you. And, after all, "magical items" must be expensive, otherwise, they would not be "magical".
This disturbs me enormously, and, it is for such reasons, I feel compelled to provide realistic and truthful information that conforms to basic Engineering, Chemistry, Physics, and Mathematical Principals in those areas with which I am very knowledgeable and familiar.
"Ultimate Record Cleaner Solution"
Ingredient Amount by Weight (Grams)
Distilled Water 779.962
Ethyl Alcohol 220.000
Tergitol 15-S-7 (Dow Chemical) 0.038 (Approx. = 2 Drops)
1,000.000
Important and/or Relevant Criteria
1.) Distilled Water ONLY. Do not use deionized, tap, rain, or spring water. Distilled Water is readily available in most grocery stores. Check labeling to be certain that it is distilled and not deionized. The pricing is comparable.
2.) Ethanol must be purchased at a "Liquor Store" or a "Liquor Control Board" that is suitable for human consumption, and the appropriate taxes must be paid. This assures that the alcohol consists of only Ethyl Alcohol and water. You need to purchase the 95+% version, also known as 180+ Proof. NOTHING ELSE is acceptable. (100% Ethyl Alcohol is not available under "normal" circumstances). Denatured alcohol from a Hardware Store or elsewhere is PROHIBITED, as well as ANY other alcohols.
3.) Tergitol 15-S-7 is made by Dow and is available on the internet in small quantities from Laboratory Supply Houses such as Fisher and Advance, etc.. I have no affiliations with either Dow Chemical, or Fisher, or Advance. You MUST use Tergitol 15-S-7 ONLY. No other Tergitol product is acceptable for this designed formula, and you need to acquire the undiluted form only.
4.) The above cleaner formula will result in a non-foaming (VLF) Surfactant Formulation that exhibits the following:
Surface Tension of 28.5 dynes/centimeter @ 20 C. (68.0 F.)
Surface Tension of 28.2 dynes/centimeter @ 25 C. (77.0 F.)
5.). A Surface Tension of 28.5 dynes/centimeter is Remarkable and will properly clean records of all organic soilings, and all oily substances, as well as very significant amounts of inorganic soilings. This available Surface Tension coupled with the Azeotropic Characteristics of very rapid evaporation and spotless drying occur because of the selection of Ethyl Alcohol and the very specific concentration determined as 22.00% p.b.w., further improves the products abilities. The "Ease-of-Use" and "Spot-Free" results are to be accepted.
6.). Be aware that an "ideal temperature of use" also exists for this formulation. And, that reasonable temperature is 40 C. (104.0 F.). Further increases in temperature offers no improvement, therefore, confirming the proper use of the term "ideal". I mention this not because of of any substantial improvement, but, only to be aware of its’ existence. And, if you have a choice to utilize a room that is warmer than another, select the warmer room closer to 104.0 F. There is no need to elevate the temperature of the records or the materials. Simply be aware that 104.0 F. Is ideal.
If interest is expressed in this submission, I am willing to provide additional submissions regarding other materials, and, other areas of interest. Such as"Best Contact Substance", "Best lubricants for turntables", " Better Dampening Materials" for turntables and tonearms, and, most significantly, "Best" material for "Turntable Platter/Vinyl Record Interface" usually called "Record Mats". The last item will certainly disturb many individuals and anger many suppliers.
Whatever I may contribute is substantiated by Science and Testing, and Verifiable. Science has no Opinions. Opinions in these matters are best reserved for those who rely on their imagination and wishful thinking.
Also, I have no vested interests in this Industry. Simply possess some scientific knowledge that also relates to some aspects of the Audio Area, and I am willing to share that information if requested!
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- 470 posts total
@pindac, @whart, and any others reading, Thank-you for the kind words. Keep in-mind that what I present is a process - not a single chemistry. My aqueous process is centered around pre-clean, rinse, final-clean, rinse and is the industry standard for precision cleaning with aqueous cleaner and as the book states Chapter II: The manual precision aqueous vinyl record cleaning procedure detailed by this document began with the cleaning process used by the United States Library of Congress to clean delicate lacquer records. That procedure was then modified following the fundamentals developed for MIL-STD-1330D Precision Cleaning and Testing of Shipboard Oxygen, Helium, Helium-Oxygen, Nitrogen, And Hydrogen Systems and MIL-STD-1622B Standard Practice for Cleaning of Shipboard Compressed Air Systems. To refresh: I developed MIL-STD-1330D and MIL-STD-1622B as well as the jointly patented cleaning agent - Navy Oxygen Cleaner (NOC), and if you were to read NASA procedures for aqueous cleaning of high-pressure oxygen, you would see similar pre-clean, rinse, final clean, rinse processes. So, I present a 'process', not a single chemical. The book presents various options for pre-cleaner and final cleaner chemistry, and as the book states: All cleaning procedures specified herein are presented as only “a” way to clean a record. No claim is made there is only one way to approach the process. All methods & procedures specified here present opportunity for experimenting with different cleaning agents, different cleaning brushes, different drying cloths, and different cleaning equipment. So, this whole hoopla has nothing to do with someone else's chemistry which the concept of alcohol + nonionic surfactant is nothing new. If you read VIII.15.1 London Jazz Collector™ (LJC) LJC home recipe for vacuum record cleaning machines | LondonJazzCollector (wordpress.com) he indicates it's for vacuum record cleaning machines and does not recommend allowing to just evaporate to prevent leaving dissolved contaminants. And if you analyze his formula (by volume), it's as follows: 25% IPA & 250 ppm nonionic surfactant (likely at 8 x CMC). The formula provided by @wizzzard is by weight 22% ethanol and 0.038% Tergitol 15-S-7 which ~380 ppm which is 10 x CMC. If you review and understand Table XIII Hansen Solubility Parameter Record Polymers & Solvents, you will see the differences between 100% IPA and 100% Ethanol. Based on @wizzzard 'credentials' it should be child's-play for him to do a comparison of two formulas - IPA + Tegitol 15-S-9 (which are inexpensive & easy obtained) and Ethanol + Tergitol 15-S-7 (which may not as inexpensive or as easily obtained); and hopefully he could put this in both 'by-weight' and 'by-volume' to make it more accessible to the average person and let people decide for themselves. But, because I have a name, and you can find me, for liability reasons I will not make any recommendation for use of alcohol above 2.5%. Additionally, I am not here to formulate cleaning agents - I let others do that. Otherwise, my background in some of the most intensive quality assurance programs in world (Navy SUBSAFE The U.S. Navy’s Submarine Safety Standards (bsee.gov) & Deep Submergence Diver Life Support) and my development of the MIL-STDs to clean high-pressure oxygen and life support systems and the need to have every final cleaner approved by a three-panel medical board (toxicology, internal medicine & industrial health) have left me acutely sensitive to being protective of human health. If I am to be criticized for being overly protective - guilty as charged. So, I will advise of the risk - beyond that you are free to take as many risks as you wish but you are at least fully aware; that is my policy. So, myself and @wizzzard are fundamentally different - he is presenting a chemistry, I am presenting a 'process'; and it's my experience with developing and implementing (world-wide) precision cleaning processes - that to effectively clean a record - you need a process, and every process be it manual cleaning, manual-cleaning with vacuum assistance or ultrasonic cleaning, and combinations thereof require a variation of the chemistry for best results. Beyond that, I am not here to defend or promote my process. The book goes into excruciating detail trying to explain the whys behind the process including a deep dive (Chapter XI) into just how clean the record needs to be to extract all the music it contains. If you agree, that's great, if you don't, that's OK. I am selling nothing and make no income from the book, and it was a good exercise to keep my skillsets high when I 'was' retired - no more, back to work and I really do not have the time anymore to expend as I have in the past. So, this is likely my last post on this forum. Take care and stay-well, Neil Antin PS/Given the state of affairs in cyber-space, I have adopted the 'zero-trust' cyber position, and consequently, I am now being very careful as to just what personally identifiable information (PII) I disclose. |
Due to my location, I have used BASF™ Dehypon® LS 54 nonionic surfactant. as a substitute for Tergitol 15-S-9. I see that Tergitol 15-S-7 is the recommended substance within this thread. As previous experience showed it was going to be expensive to acquire Tergitol, and it is not readily available in the UK. The acquiring the alternative Dehypon came with a large proportion of monies outlaid for the assembling the materials to enable the Manual Cleaning Method to be put in place. I would be happiest if the Dehypon was identified as being usable with the mixture being proposed by @wizzzard. Acquiring the Ethanol as per the Purity suggested, is looking relatively easy, and is available at a fair cost. I invested in a accurate weighing scale, and would like to know the mixture in weight of grams of Dehypon per 220 grams of Ethanol, if this is considered a mixture worthwhile producing. |
Pindac, very often identical nonionic detergents are sold under different names, depending upon the manufacturer or patent holders. You might check to determine the chemical relationship between your preferred preparation and either tergitol S7 or S9. Maybe there is chemical identity to one or the other or maybe there are only small differences in properties that are of little consequence. |
US cleaning is just about all I've used after buying a Klaudio US machine. Its one-button simplicity just can't be beat, imo. Nothing could be easier or more tidy.
That's a remarkable statement from someone who until recently insisted nothing other than a conductive sweep brush was needed to ensure a clean LP. I can't help but wonder what contamination these LPs have accumulated that require substantial amounts of alcohol to remove. |
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