Did Amir Change Your Mind About Anything?

There are hundreds of things that effect the sound and can be heard by most anyone on a good system and these things do not change the measurements of the DUT.  You can give me 10 Purifi amps that all measure the same.  I will mod each one sound way, way different from each other.  These amps will all measure the same.....exactly the same......but they all sound different.  The objectivists do not believe this.....they will argue and argue but they will never listen to equipment with mods and see if there is a difference......they say the same thing about cables off the floor, cables, footers, other tweaks, amp stands, etc. to infinity.

Just yesterday I was tweaking my system and it sounded kind of dry and recessed.  I had heard Cat Stevens here sounding much better......However, I was listening with the cover off.  Before, I felt the cover on the unit made it sound too fat and rolled off.  However, that was really a problem with the amp module that I corrected last week.......so, I put the cover back on and the sound changed dramatically.  His voice was now way bigger sounding and everything was more real.....really MOVED me.  

Without listening tests (and they do not need to be blind or double blind.....unless you are deaf or double deaf....he he) you have no idea of what something will sound like.  I can remember what something sounded like years later......really!  I do not have golden ears......I just listen.  You come to my house and I will demonstrate tons of things that alter the sound.....and none of it can be measured.....this is the truth the objectivists (who do not listen) will fight and fight.  These kinds of threads never go anywhere becasue the Amir type people just keep pounding on their EE bibles....saying the same thing over and over.  This game is way, way more complex than measurements.  I was one of the first people on the planet to do straight wire bypass testing on 7 inch pieces of wire (back in the late 70s).  None of the wires sounded as transparent and pure as the half inch reference.....not even close.  We have much better wires today that would be very close.  I did not even know about wire directionality back then (every wire....whether solid core or stranded..... (no matter if it is PCOCC or ordinary copper wire) sounds different when you reverse the direction of the wire.  Did I say this game was infinite?  Well, it is.  The measurement people make like it is so simple.....it is not.   Doing serious listening tests on a super system is critical to KNOWING ANYTHING about sound.

Do you play idiot or do you think i am an idiot ?...

Stop...

The point is not about Van Maanen specific design value...

The point of the discussion is about the non linear relation between measures and listening evaluation FOR ANY PRODUCT... We dont speak about the market for your method... We speak about the meanings of Magnasco and Oppenheim crucial experiments implications which experiment you dismiss without any shame and falsely  as anecdotal  ... You could not object anything to my interpretation and you play theater with me now... I will not go further... I am not a clown in a piece written by you where you pretend not to understand for the gallery and put in front of all some points missing completely the main argument...

The center of my argument is the articles of Magnasco and Oppenheim... Their conclusion falsify your claims that a limited set of linear measured will always predict Qualitative musical qualities... Your set of measures is not complete and being well and useful for the standard design needs but they never will replace trained hearings ... PERIOD...

@mahgister

ANY DEESIGNER USE SINE WAVE PULSE ...Van Maanen too... But he use also real music busts ... Is it too much difficult to understand why ?

There is nothing there to understand. You have no information on what music was used. How the testing was done. Who were the listeners. What was compared to what. You are asking me to believe in something that even you don’t know about.

@amir_asr Here is the problem: there is no proof point that the assertion of said designer is true. You say he did "extensive listening tests." I guarantee that you have no idea what that testing was let alone that it was extensive. What music was used? What power level? What speakers? How many listeners? What is the qualifications of the designer when it comes to hearing impairments?

Story is told and believed. Maybe it is true. Maybe it is not. After all, if he saw a significant measurement error, logic says the odds of it sounding good is low. After all, why else would you tell that story? If the odds are low, then we better have a documented, controlled test that shows that. Not just something told.

Exactly. I believed something "told" once. Thought I’d put it to the test myself. It was about a really great measuring DAC on said forum. All looked good on measurements and graphs. I took the plunge, went out and bought it with intent it would be a long term keeper DAC. Played it for just under two weeks. Unfortunately, ended up sending it back for a full refund and kept a different unit that measured worse. This other worse measuring unit sounded so much better and was notably more engaging to my ears - for half the price. My ears, my preference, is #1. Summary, what measured better did not sound better. End of story for me. And, preference can vary from one person to the next, no matter what the graph wants to show.

Thanks to those in business who understand this and offer a helpful refund policy. Not everyone is going to like the sound of their designs. 

It  is my experience too... Thanks for your post .

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Measurements are all I use, so they are very useful, but for you prior to review, a bias. 

I am not reviewing your speakers.  I want to see the measurements so can put some meat behind the bold claims you are making regarding their performance.  Your unwillingness again shows you either don't have proper measurements or that they show too poor of a performance.

You are also contradictory.  You have no issue biasing people with the way the speaker looks. or how it is designed.  But ask for some objective data and oh, "that will bias you."  Well, hell you already biased everyone.