Did Amir Change Your Mind About Anything?


It’s easy to make snide remarks like “yes- I do the opposite of what he says.”  And in some respects I agree, but if you do that, this is just going to be taken down. So I’m asking a serious question. Has ASR actually changed your opinion on anything?  For me, I would say 2 things. I am a conservatory-trained musician and I do trust my ears. But ASR has reminded me to double check my opinions on a piece of gear to make sure I’m not imagining improvements. Not to get into double blind testing, but just to keep in mind that the brain can be fooled and make doubly sure that I’m hearing what I think I’m hearing. The second is power conditioning. I went from an expensive box back to my wiremold and I really don’t think I can hear a difference. I think that now that I understand the engineering behind AC use in an audio component, I am not convinced that power conditioning affects the component output. I think. 
So please resist the urge to pile on. I think this could be a worthwhile discussion if that’s possible anymore. I hope it is. 

chayro

@soundfield

That serves only as a misdirection. You are claiming/showing a purported successful test. By you.

Nope.  You lost the plot there.  Dear member @kevn made this comment I was responding to:

Fifth, he is unable to tell apart music files of low and high resolution, and based on this lack of ability, determines that measurements in performance testing is all that is needed to determine what is heard, and what is not.

He says I am unable to tell such files apart and by implication, he can.  Can he AJ?  Are his claims correct that he can hear such differences and if you can't, that will be a sign of resentment on your part?

You wanted in this conversation.  There you are.  What is the answer or must we ask it 10 times and only get non-answers?

Hey @amir_asr are you going to reply to soundfield? Pretty amazing how you switch your entire ethos. 

Seems like you want in this conversation as well.  Do you think it is possible for an audiophile to hear the difference between high-res and CD?

What is the impact of a photon of light when you hear an informative qualities perceived from two singers whose tone interact ?

None i know of...And even if there is one, the basic of psycho-acoustic is not based on photonic...This is another level i am not at all able to adress nor you and unnecessary for the discussion about sound qualities perceptible value..

my audio system work only if Maxwell and Einstein are right and some other scientists so what ? What is the relation with psycho acoustic basic fact ?

Unable to answer my question in psycho-acoustic which is directly related you want to ridicule me with emgineering physics ?

Your electrical measures are necessary for design and useful as qualitative information about gear coupling etc... They cannot predict ALL aspect of audible qualities perceived by the ears/brain listening to a an audio system in this room with this ears or this other room etc ...

You can say this amplifier work well because the measures well demonstrate his linear well predictive working on some stress factors...Thts Ok.. This does not describe and means that ALL listening impressions will be ALL reducible to this set of measures...If not we must call them you claim it so , delusions or artefacts or illusions .. The reason why we hear what we hear are in psycho acoustic about the way human ears works First and last...Not in electrical engineering..

it seems finally that you are like the techno zealots around you... 😊

I will repeat it to be clear, the center and crucial matter in audio are first in acoustic and psycho acoustic not in the gear measuring... Even well and good gear design take his basic fact from psycho-acoustic ...Not the reverse... Psycho-acoustic can use tools and measures but it is to study human hearing... And human hearing is not first and last illusory, it is a relation to reality... it is studied as such in works around hearing impairment...You want to save face by drowning the fish: psycho acoustic explain audible qualities as real  not electric engineering by itself ..

 

But such engineering explanation is not going to make sense to audiophiles as they are not technical and so will dismiss it out of hand.

That is just a prejudicial statement. As with any group, all audiophiles are not alike, although I understand why it’s convenient for you to portray them that way.

Indeed, this is why objectivists failed to make headway for literally decades.

Most objectivists do just fine in the audio world, as is demonstrated on this site every day.

What we at ASR do is go above and beyond. We measure. We measure the signal coming out of your gear ...

But you’re not an objectivist, you’re a measurementalist. That’s how you can sweep aside any empirical evidence that doesn’t fit your agenda, which is to drive traffic to your forum and website. And it’s how you can just positively know how something will sound, without ever having gone to the trouble of actually listening to it.

And we even offer listening tests with real music. But the latter is not really necessary. I just provide it to get past the objection of "well, you didn’t test wiht music." OK, we did and the outcome was precisely as we said it would be.

Expectation bias; even measurementalists are not immune. In fact, they may be especially vulnerable.

Your use of bold face fonts does nothing to further your argument, btw.

@soundfield 

 

Hmmm, so the Great Amir can't measure it, but can hear it. My my, that sure sounds audiophile myth familiar doesn't it? Coming from the Great one??

There would be nothing wrong or inconsistent with that, and it would be consistent with a scientific mindset.

Often enough observation of a phenomenon comes first, then we try to explain it more rigorously with other empirical evidence, hypothesis testing, measurements etc.   Anyone could reliably observe that certain reptiles, e.g. chameleons, could change their color well before we understood and quantified the phenomenon.

What counts as an observation that requires such inquiry will necessarily interact with our current body of (tentative, but reliable) knowledge.  If it contradicts well known and reliable fields of knowledge then you don't have to pay much attention to claims that would undermine that theory, unless they had very strong levels of reliable observation behind them - e.g. someone claims to have seen a Perpetual Motion Machine in his friend's garage isn't going to count as an observation that requires rigorous inquiry.

But, for instance, if it turned out people were reliably able to detect sonic differences between A and B, in well controlled tests, where this is unexpected on current theory, then yes that becomes a reliable observation you'd want to explain.

And then seek perhaps evidence to support a hypothesis as to what is objectively happening, e.g. try to find relevant measurements. 

In other words: there is nothing in principle wrong with reporting hearing a sonic difference that one has not measured (or been able to measure as of yet).

This is why Amir has been pretty consistent in often emphasizing the relevance of listening.  (But...under conditions controlling for variables, when seeking higher confidence levels).