The sound quality from DACs - is it all the same?

gasoline powered automobiles are a most mature product technologically, presently

yet some of them perform much much better than others, differences aren’t subtle

technology (and its ’maturity’) are but one aspect of many that impact performance

For sure you are right ... 😊

BACCH Filters coupled to a dac or integrated with one is the next level technology...

Classical dac technology is mature in the perspective of the ratio sound quality versus price...

Thats all my remark meaning...

There is less difference between low cost dac and higher costly one than a decade ago...

Then upgrading a relatively good dac to another relatively good dac, if you like your acutal synergy experience with the other components, makes less sense than upgrading immediately to BACCH system the next level where two technology are integrated to another type of general DSP level...

I own 4 basic low cost dac and the differences between them is immediately perceptible but each one has his own function and synergy potential but throwing many, many thousand dollars to upgrade any of them make less sense now than investing in BACCH filters or way better other investing in other components or investing in embeddings mechanical and electrical or acoustical controls which will be more impactful together than any classical dac of any type upgrades... Better to buy BACCH or transform your room acoustic...If with your actual dac the synergy please you already for sure..

@mahgister , IMO, any DAC, i.e. digital/analog conversion --> filter deployment, etc is DSP. There is no such thing as a purist DAC really. Any DAC that uses FPGA is certainly not a purist DAC and is very much in the DSP domain. Even the common R2R dacs rely heavily on FPGA. Manufacturers don’t openly use the word DSP in their product lest they scare off the "purist" audiophiles. Low info audiophiles seem to be a bit too confused and/or conflicted when it comes to their understanding of what constitutes DSP or not.

BACCH, HRTFs and all other proprietary FPGA intervention, etc is an attempt to evolve/enhance a DAC’s function such that it begins to realistically portray the presentation of a 3D soundfield, layering, spatial cues, detail, etc to the ears (as would be respresentative of live great acoustic spaces with unplugged instruments playing and no PA equipment involved)

Lower cost DACs can easily match core SINAD measurements, noise floor, etc of any 10k, 20k, 40k, 80k whatever "high end" DAC. The real enhancement of the listening experience comes from the implementation of different types of DSP mentioned above. The latter comes down to the knowledge base/competence level of the individual manufacturer. In that respect, i have more faith in some of the bigger dogs (Sony, Yamaha, Sound United, Technics, etc) to come up with something worthwhile over the years. For example, Yamaha just invested ~100 million USD in audio R&D. I don’t care to waste my time (not a chance) with the fluff manufacturers a.k.a 1 guy tinkering in his garage and coming up with a price tag of 20k somehow! (he must think he’s that much of a genius!).

For now, i have a Denafrips Venus (~3k), Technics SL-G700 SACD player/DAC/Streamer combo unit (~3k) and a TAD D1000TX SACD player/DAC (~15k msrp, you could get it for 8 to 10k, if you are tactical 😏). I can justify a higher cost for CD/SACD player/DAC/streamer type of combo units when they are built like a mac truck and last for life. If the DACs become outdated in 10 years, they could still serve as top notch quality transports. But, i couldn’t justify that level of cost for stand-alone DACs, a constantly evolving tech.

Basic dac technology is mature ...

This dont means that there is no higher quality dac offerings, there is plenty...

this means that the ratio S.Q. / price has improved in an extraordinary way compared to  what it was more than 10 years ago...

And BACCH filters can be associated with a dac , it is a DSP technology but not a dac even if Choueiri offer to put it in his own dac concept...

Then my point is if you are happy with a basic good dac , upgrading it is not necessarily the best option , buying another piece of gear can be the better road or improving your acoustic , electrical and mechanical system embeddings controls... ...

I spoke for people like me with very limited budget...

I like your last post and i am OK with it by the way...

@mahgister , IMO, any DAC, i.e. digital/analog conversion --> filter deployment, etc is DSP. There is no such thing as a purist DAC really. Any DAC that uses FPGA is certainly not a purist DAC and is very much in the DSP domain. Even the common R2R dacs rely heavily on FPGA. Manufacturers don’t openly use the word DSP in their product lest they scare off the "purist" audiophiles. Low info audiophiles seem to be a bit too confused and/or conflicted when it comes to their understanding of what constitutes DSP or not.

BACCH, HRTFs and all other proprietary FPGA intervention, etc is an attempt to evolve/enhance a DAC’s function such that it begins to realistically portray the presentation of a 3D soundfield, layering, spatial cues, detail, etc to the ears (as would be respresentative of live great acoustic spaces with unplugged instruments playing and no PA equipment involved)

Lower cost DACs can easily match core SINAD measurements, noise floor, etc of any 10k, 20k, 40k, 80k whatever "high end" DAC. The real enhancement of the listening experience comes from the implementation of different types of DSP mentioned above. The latter comes down to the knowledge base/competence level of the individual manufacturer. In that respect, i have more faith in some of the bigger dogs (Sony, Yamaha, Sound United, Technics, etc) to come up with something worthwhile over the years. For example, Yamaha just invested ~100 million USD in audio R&D. I don’t care to waste my time (not a chance) with the fluff manufacturers a.k.a 1 guy tinkering in his garage and coming up with a price tag of 20k somehow! (he must think he’s that much of a genius!).

For now, i have a Denafrips Venus (~3k), Technics SL-G700 SACD player/DAC/Streamer combo unit (~3k) and a TAD D1000TX SACD player/DAC (~15k msrp, you could get it for 8 to 10k, if you are tactical 😏). I can justify a higher cost for CD/SACD player/DAC/streamer type of combo units when they are built like a mac truck and last for life. If the DACs become outdated in 10 years, they could still serve as top notch quality transports. But, i couldn’t justify that level of cost for stand-alone DACs, a constantly evolving tech.

This is a strange thread as there are plenty of reviews, testimonials, and technical descriptions of differences between DACs.  Even units using the same model DAC chips sound different after implementation.  

+1. A DAC designer I know said implementation is everything