Two questions to make you mad.

Thanks for your kind appreciation and for the discussion ...

Magic and miracles are everyday life....Remember your childhood or read poetry... Spirit and consciousness does not disappear because we are able to discover physical laws... The fact that it takes sensible traces or writings dont transform the prime numbers distribution in a material fact...Music is not the written melody ,it is more... It is a meanings purely observed when some evolutive condition are reached but these evolutive conditions dont create meanings at all ...These numbers meanings transcend matter and precede it eternally even if this meaning can be embodied in a sensible form...

This embodiement is not his negation as a transcendant fact but his manifestation his revelation as meaning not randomness or meaninglessness ...You go beside my point completely not even grasping it... How could you deny its value ?😊

I spoke about MEANINGS given to a consciousness... For sure this meanings which is immaterial is associated to a material written word or letters or musical tonal chords... But the poetic, or prosaic meanings or the melody cannot be explained by the material embodiment of the meanings or by his material reproduction... The fact that Beethoven remembered music and used his hands to sense vibration and then "hear" music anew dont negate the transcendant content of the meanings toward which his quartet content strive ......Music is not sound waves but with and through sound waves as fire is not air but with air as his medium... Consciousness must exist to perceive meanings as a transcendant order over randomness and distinguishing the two states as revealed and to distinguish between wood, air and fire as distinct phases.....

Materialism is the dogmatic claims that meanings are related first to "matter" not to consciousness which is for materialism a secondary almost unnecessary by chance product ...I suggest you listen to the physicist and mathematician Wolfgang Smith or read his books about quantum mechanics ... ...Or the physicist Henri Bortoft about science method in Goethe...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M_uFQNDlvI

If you dont like the fact that Smith is a christian then pick agnostic Penrose or the french mathematician Alain Connes about the meanings of prime numbers distribution ..

or try Anirban bandyopadhyay the genius who designe actually the mathematics of the first artificial brain .. Read his book and be ready to stumble from your chair as i did... 😁

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SDcUA84Nlw

Think about the distribution of prime numbers which is the ground of arithmetic, this distribution cannot exist without a consciousness to OBSERVE IT because this distribution not only has a MEANING but is meaning itself manifested and not because it is written on a sheet of paper but because it takes a consciousness to perceive it in the suprasensible sky so to speak ... This distribution exist out and without this universe for any POSSIBLE consciousness ... This distribution is a given meaning to be observed even for any possible god...No god can nullify this meaning or decide it will loose his meanings... It is an absolute immaterial fact as the value of Pi is....We dont need a material SPECIFIC cosmos to observe these mathematical facts but we need a consciousness... They are the grounding of any universe possible into POTENTIAL and ACTUAL meanings...

By the way, it is not consciousness which is an unattainable format , it is "matter" as conceived before quantum dynamics which does not exist as independant of consciousness, consciousness is the ultimate reality...

Music is meanings for a consciousness through waves which are organized sounds given to a consciousness which organize matter in a way to make matter the conveyor of this immaterial meanings...

But meanings can be perceived through matter in the morphogenesis of all mammals bodies variations for example if we by creative imaginative perception relate all details of the forms to the metabolic dynamics under the appearance...But this does not makes meanings a trivial material facts...We need a consciousness to make the RELATION manifested as meaningful...

https://www.amazon.com/Threefoldness-Humans-Mammals-Toward-Biology/dp/0932776647/ref=sr_1_4?qid=1697982946&refinements=p_27%3AWolfgang+Schad&s=books&sr=1-4

@mahgister

i understand and appreciate your thought. Using consciousness as an unattainable format doesn’t help it’s not magic whatever it is we know it’s not magic because it is within everyone. I’m being very literal here and I understand that just because the thousands of dollars I’ve spent on my signal cables in my playback system don’t mean that just because those cables measure sometimes worse than regular cables the difference is magic. Take out the waves in sound and you don’t have music Beethoven remembered his experience when he could hear and he did use his hands to feel the waves of the music, even if he wouldn’t have he still used a mechanical instrument to achieve his goal not a magical one the harpsichord or his experience .

The next step in A.I. will be A.C. artificial consciousness and it will be based on Non- Turing machine...

These non-Turing machines are grounded in the prime numbers distribution, which distribution is a meaning transcending any universe, any actual machine or any matrix...

Then claiming as in the nineteen century that matter exist and consciousness is an unecessary random derivatives is beyond ridicule and only reveal complete ignorance about the last century discoveries in maths and physics and in philosophy ...

Dont believe me read the links in my post above ... Anirban video will be hard to grasp but go in his book or articles...

Anirban is a genius the next one in the brain understanding , not in A. I. now outclassed by a deeper mathematical research, but in A. C. artificial consciousness machines...

The fact that i am a ferocious opponent of transhumanism technocratic materialism does not means that i dont understand the " limited science" behind it and behind the limited actual A. I. ....

😁

By the way via time crystals chains, for Anirban all the universe is a musical "machine" and music is not material but meanings embodied by rythms (numbers not mere physical waves) ... Matter dont exist in the absolute meaning of the word "exist" , music exist as prime numbers exist as absolute reality for any consciousness even for God ...

The ASML machine is producing chips, not music. End of story. People don't sit around listening to it print do they? A $62M rocket stage is "accurate enough" in what it does using "regular" cables, but nope, it isn't creating music either. 

@tomic601 I thought you had retired? Or are you in an unreimbursed collective? 😃

@mahgister 

I do understand what you are saying, I’m definitely not a materialist I’m a Christian that thinks God has designed logic into all of his creation from the galaxies to the orbits of atoms. I disagree about your mystical view of math and logic in general. 
once in college someone asked our math professor what his doctoral thesis was on, he said you wouldn’t understand. We were taken back here we were big shots taking to highest calculus class the university offered many students pressed on and got our professor to explain so he put one of his thesis problems on the board we didn’t even know that language sure it kinda looked like math but no one had a clue, he said I told you so. 
 

Seems to me you are using the gaps in knowledge to justify the parts we don’t understand prime numbers are not magical in fact they are the very opposite of magic they are logic. If you listen to music that moves your emotions there is an explanation it may be very personal but it’s not magic. To be blunt you seem like a mathophile that delights in linking things like the logic of math and physics to other categories like emotions by way of popular jargon with slightly mystical bridges. 

Acoustics and fluid dynamics are really hard subjects there is no room for anything but hardcore logic. Back in college I took some quantum math from a professor that was a bit famous in the field I thought it would be very interesting it wasn’t it was like statistics not physics no fun at all.

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This is why audiophiles are so subject to snake oil and 700$ fuses 80k$ speaker cables they are smart and choose to live between the technical and emotional boundaries of knowledge. Some of the more experienced people on this forum just say -enjoy the music- and don’t bother.