"I'm a believer"

"...anyone that spends $20,000 for a piece of wire is either stupid or has more money than brains,..."

Ahh yes...another thinly veiled insult hurled from the cheap seats.

How about if someone is running $500k worth of amplification? (D’Agostino Relentless monoblocks, for instance...) Are they stupid then? More money than brains?

Or a "money no object" pursuit of the absolute pinnacle in audiophile sound quality?

@kennymacc

In all my personal experience in this great hobby of ours, IMHO, there is no other item in high end audio that fall under the "Rule of Diminishing Returns" like loudspeakers.

I have to disagree.

I don’t think that diminishing returns applies anywhere in audio.

For an example; my rich cousin was recently deciding between Pass Labs, or CH Precision at a substantial difference in price (to drive his Von Schweikert Ultra 9 speakers). What did he get for the 5 figures he had to lay out for the difference? A small, but noticeable improvement in soundstage size and depth, a bit better layering. Maybe a bit better attack/decay.

He spent more in just the difference between the amps, than most people spend on their entire systems. Ask him if he passed some point of diminishing returns, and he will tell you, emphatically no.

Remember, there are 100’s of millions of people out there, who listen to all their music as MP3’s, on their smart phones, on $20 earbuds, that think that even people who have spent a modest few grand on an audio system, have passed the point of diminishing returns.

Seems to me, that the point of diminishing returns for a lot of people, mysteriously starts at the point that their ’sour grapes’ kicks in.

@simonmoon 

"Seems to me, that the point of diminishing returns for a lot of people, mysteriously starts at the point that their ’sour grapes’ kicks in."

Or their wallets give out.

😉

Saying that the diminishing return point does not exist or vary arbitrarily , is speaking of audio experience as the average audiophile ignorant of acoustics and which believe that only the gear design matter and the price tag ...

There is difference between my low cost modified speakers and more refined and costly one, this is a commonplace fact nobody can contradict and some are ready to pay the price for them ; once this is said this does not means that acoustic factors , as dynamics, transients, timbre, imaging , soundstage, immersiveness and other spatial acoustical qualities cannot be manifested as objective factors that can be reach and put under relative controls at low cost passing over some minimal acoustical objective satisfaction level ...Speakers well embedded at any cost transform themselves completely ...This fact is not recognized by most ...

There is three embeddings controls set for any speakers at any price ...Each well designed speakers at any price will be able to give an acoustical minimal satisfaction and more if we learn how to put speakers in the right environment and under the three main controls dimensions : mechanical,electrical and acoustical ... Add to that some effective tweaks ...

For sure i could upgrade my speakers but i am so happy i dont need to do it to listening music without too much evident defects ...

The upgrade will cost too much for what it will give me ...How much, it depend of the acoustic factors manifested in the right balance with my system for my ears , it does not depend of price as much as from a new adequate embeddings for the new speakers ...

I will give an exemple :

My low cost speakers are designed with a rear porthole...

It is only that : a hole ...

Any speakers is an Helmholtz resonators . if the porthole is simply a hole of a certain diameter in my case or a tube inside, this does not means that the hole or the tube are adequately designed as refined as they would be optimally ...With my small speakers for example at this hole without a neck, i add a complex bundle of straws of different size and volume to fine tune the porthole for greater extension in the bass but way more than that a redefinition of the timbre and soundstage expression ...

No speakers designers will claim that their speakers must be mechanically electrically and acoustically embedded and modified to work optimally before or  after the consumers gives his money  ... Not one ...They will claim that their speakers are perfect plug and play ...

But all  speakers need that three embeddings and sometimes modifications ...

When well embedded in a room we reach this point of diminishing return, which vary for low fi, mid fi and high end , but which point exist so evidently that i will class good designed speakers in two categories : well embedded in a house or not well embedded more than with a price tag ...

@mahgister 

Good for you Mahgi. I agree, cables represent a very minor part of a system. They are either good cables or they are not. It is also easy to make your own cables of the highest performance and save thousands. 

There is a point of diminishing returns with loudspeakers and I put it in the 40-50 thousand dollar range. This does not include subwoofers. I know of no vintage loudspeaker (pre 1965) that can hold a candle to the best modern speakers. Upgrading loudspeakers will also generally not solve severe room problems although some types of speakers interact with the room to a lesser degree.