WHY IS THERE SO MUCH HATE FOR THE HIGH END GEAR ON AUDIO GEAR?

I concur with your post speaking about people with no knowledge of high end gear and no musical knowledge or education in classical and jazz who bashed and insulted calling people snobs ...

But you forgot , between the fewer completely informed and the mass of ignorant , the crowd of the partially informed, even with high end products , gear fetichist in some way, with no knowledge about acoustics and system working embeddings electrical and mechanical controls, braggingt about their favorite costlier piece of gear ... Acoustics with an (s) is not simple room acoustic by the way ...

Psycho-acoustics rule the gear not the reverse...And not price tag ....

I have noticed the vitriol as well (I think we all have).

It started around 2010 (or 2012 if you go to the Steve Hoffman forums). I can see exactly when the threads began being nasty (mid 2012). From what I can see, before I left that forum over this very subject (hatefulness) , the majority of members there have very modest equipment, and have never heard the truly High End equipment. (Or they heard it, and it was set up badly, but, since it was at a dealers, it MUST have been set up right, and the sound was just crappy and not worth the price!)

I was an audiophile back in the early 80s, and it was a "Golden Age" of sorts, with astounding advances in equipment. And prices were not stratospheric, either.

But more than just the equipment itself, I’ve also come to realize that most of the people commenting on forums have never been to a symphonic or jazz concert back at a time when they did not use microphones for every instrument/performance. And 48 track for recording (and we can thank the Beatles for that! (and I love the Beatles!)). So, they have no idea how music sounds in real life without a zillion microphones blasting at them thru a mediocre system that doesn’t reproduce the dynamic nuances, which are the very essence of life music (acoustic, I repeat) and not miked. I have asked, time and again, if they go to acoustic music concerts. I can’t recall a single response being "yes" when I asked that. They have no experience with live, unamplified music.

 

On top of that, most of these people also do do not trust their ears, but how could they if they do not know what "the real thing" sounds like? It also does not occur to the people on forums in 2023 that the goal - back then - of audiophile designers (for the most part) was: trying to design equipment that could sound as "real" as possible (with all of the dynamic/steadystate/transient pluck/imaging and soundstaging attributes one would hear live) , and that meant acoustic instruments. Since most people don’t listen to that (and never did), how can they be expected to recognize what is objective reality (the actual sound of an instrument - or voice) in person? They believe in what "sounds good to me" and not what is objectively closer to a recording of a properly recorded instrument/voice/performance. They just can’t relate. So they sneer and bash instead. I would imagine that that same sentiment applies to other areas of their life, as well. Seems a rather miserable way to live life, but it’s their life.

 

viridian

...hate is for audiophiles, not the gear. Completely deserved ...

Hate is a very strong word. Why have hate for a fellow human? Why so angry?

I acknowledge there are a few unpleasant people here, but they're easy to ignore. Hate isn't required.

Some bullet points based on perceptions of what’s under the bell curve. The modal demographic. For context.. I’m a 58yo audiophile. Supposedly. In the hobby since the 1980’s.

- Young ppl (under 30.. maybe even 35 to 40yo’s in cities) tend to live in apartments (so headphones) or their parents homes.. so, headphones.. or if lucky, a minimal near-field system with a cheap computer, PlayStation, Apple TV or Wiim as a source. They don’t want to see our expansive spreads of hardware.

- Older people (traditional audiophiles) tend to own their homes outright and spend a lot on gear.. they can leverage their home equity.. have a dedicated room.. a yard as a buffer zone.. and home audio is after all a part of our homes, and complete systems can now easily cost more than was paid for the home originally. The market has shifted to reflect this low-volume, high profit margin demographic as SFR home ownership diminishes and MFR’s flourish.

This is systemic in many areas of the economy and (imho) largely because of Federal Reserve banking practices over the last four decades as a response to the fear of 1929 reoccurring.

- High-end audio can now be described (somewhat metaphorically) as male jewelry.. ’the big watch’ ..with opulent superfluous finishes where the cosmetic attributes of the gear could even describe something pre-Bolshevik.. an ostentatious attempt in visually underpinning one’s supposed affluence by owning it. However.. unlike a watch.. it’s personal.. you don’t flaunt it in public, but you may invite people over to enjoy it. It is largely personal but it’s more than that.

- Young people hate this. Perhaps they want theirs but can’t afford it.. and likely will never be able to because of student loans and the unlikely prospect of ever owning a real home to enjoy high-end home audio (let alone spending an additional $50k on their system cabling for an extra 5% in performance). They may reject all this merely in principle. They are stuck with a ’hot-head’ in their headphones. Literally.

I personally respect (and prefer) companies who cram quality components, a mountain of R&D and passion.. under a cost effective utilitarian surface, but if someone wants to opt for a $5k up-charge for their speaker’s hand-lacquered rosewood, carbon inlays or hand-burnished rhodium contacts.. go for it. I won’t agree, nor complain.. but others might.. and it might get passive-aggressive.

Ego tripping.

When men were men and dinos roamed the earth there was Usenet populated by knowledgeable guys having knowledgeable civilized discussions. It was naturally self selecting cuz you had to be an academic or work for a think tank to know about Usenet. Then came America On Line (AOL) and the appearance of the 1000 posts a week guy who got drunk on suddenly having this megaphone for his opinions. The knowledgeable people fled cuz they had better things to do and here we are.

You can still find thoughtful knowledgeable guys on Audiogon, if you dig. Just like you have to dig through the dreck to find the good gear.

* The systems part of Audiogon proves there are plenty of guys carefully putting together great systems.