Big speakers, are they really the best way to get great sound?


Yesterday, I had the opportunity to listen to some very large speakers that are considered to be at, or close to, the pinnacle in speaker design and ability. Needless to say, the speakers retail in the mid to high $300k range. These speakers, and I will not be naming them, were sourced by about $800k of upstream gear. Room size was about thirty by twenty, maybe a little larger.
To say the the overall sound was BIG would be accurate, but also I noticed something else, that I typically hear with big speaker systems. Generally, the speakers were right on edge of overloading the room, depending on music, the dreaded bass boom could be heard. But, the whole presentation was greater in impact than most any smaller speaker system, yet it was almost unlistenable for the long term.

The question I asked myself, is do we really want this type of presentation in our home audio systems? The speakers threw a pretty large soundstage, but also made things sound somewhat larger than life. I also thought that this type of speaker is akin to the large box dynamic speakers of yesteryear. For example, a set of large horns from Altec Lansing or similar was reminiscent of this sound. Makes me believe that if one has a big room, a similar sound can be obtained from most any large speaker system and at a fraction of the price.

I listen in a very small room, and by necessity in the near field, yet I think the overall intimacy of this type of listening experience is better for me, your thoughts?

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@mijostyn wrote:

200 Watts will get you 106 dB with an 83 dB efficient speaker, more than enough to handle peaks from a comfortably loud 95 dB.

We'll have to remember that's a best case, theoretical estimate - at 1 meter, mind you - that doesn't account for the unavoidable thermal compression (subtract several dB's here at full tilt). Run full-range these speakers come with a 30-80 watt amp recommendation, so pouring 200 watts into them will have those small voice coils + filter components, even high-passing the woofer/mids, becoming hotter than damnation itself with prolonged treatment of this kind. 

I know, that's a at-the-end-of-their-ropes scenario one would normally avoid with such speakers, and for the more typical listening sessions they'll do fine - certainly high-passed. I've only heard them full-range at a fairly close distance, and with regard to tonality, voice authenticity and soundstaging at moderate SPL's they're very good. As I wrote earlier, and what you indicated as well: within their confinements...

@lemonhaze wrote:

@phusis, your horns look impressive and I'm sure sound the same. This format is rare to see these days and probably intentionally overlooked because of their appearance and also because no retailer would be prepared to stock non-sellers. Pity.

Thank you. And yes, the look of the EV's (and subs) is likely off-putting for many of the audiophile inclined, seeing these are intended to be placed (and hidden) behind perforated cinema screens; that's raw functionalism out in the open originally intended to fill large theater spaces with sound at prodigious SPL's. It's pro segment, so there's no exposition in anything hifi-related. I was lucky to be around when they (and other EV siblings) became available from a cinema in Germany following Atmos upgrades that came as whole-package deals, and thus replaced all of the existing speakers. 

I've heard and helped with 2 systems, an Edgar Horn and an Altec VOTT and decided then that one day I would build something similar and to this end was interested in Tom Danley's design but has not happened yet.

Never heard the Edgar Horns. Did they come with the Seismic(?) subs as well? My Tapped Horn subs are actually a Danley patent (DIY'ers are allowed to make their own iterations). Which of the Danley's designs do you consider - the Synergy horns? They're on my "to-do" list sometime in the future..

@mihorn:

I will compare to any audio system in the world. Please you show me any audio system’s live recording video sounds better than mine. Alex/Wavetouch audio

 

OK, I've heard your videos and I’ll play. I cobbled these together with used professional JBL PA parts (2241H, 2251J) and Heil AMTs that I modified. The crossovers are of my design and use Audyn Q4 caps, heavy air core chokes, and Dale 1% resistors. Total cost was under $1,500. I’ve done some work on them since the video was made.

Source is an Oppo95 through a Yamaha RX-Z9 Receiver in "Pure Direct" mode. Recoding was performed with a Nikon D750 SLR placed in the sweet spot. There is no eq or room correction, either electronic or physical being used.

Unfortunately, you can’t hear the soundstage and imaging which is stellar outshining anything I or others have ever heard.

If you like Steely Dan, select something with a bit more variety of instrumentation and we’ll do a new video.

So who decides and what do I win?

 

Toddalin system 

Original music 

Alex / Wavetouch 

Please compare to the original music (center). I will respect members’ opinion. Please post your opinion. I’ll post my feedback tomorrow. Thank you for participation! Alex/WT

@ phusis

All quite correct. However, nobody in their right mind would run them that way. It would damage your ears. The real immediate limiting factor is the woofer. Run full range the woofer will start doubling when pushed too hard which is very annoying. High passing solves this issue completely. Next is the tweeter and I really do not know how much it can take. All I can say is I have never seen one blow. 

Watched the movie Oppenheimer last night. Highly recommended. 

This music is not my taste at all ... 😊

The two system are good at most ... Not top sorry ...

The timbre perception is not optimal in the two case...Milhorn lack bass impact and probably highs refinement ...Toddalin lack mids density ...

Why my criticism of the two ?

The room controls matter the  more and is lacking in the two case it seems and  because we cannot hear anyway  the speakers/room relation from the internet ... How is the soundstage? the listener envelopment and immersiveness ? and to really judge the timbre  and immersiveness and the spatial aspects of sound  we need something else than this commercial tune , as a chord quartet or a big band jazz etc ...

 

I apologize for my rudeness or frankness ...

 

 

Toddalin system

Original music