I thought that it was John Lennon that claimed Smokey was America’s Greatest Poet.
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You would be right if between a mystical experience and a perception of a plant growing seen from a scientific viewpoint there would have been no middle ground perspective nor any levels... I illustrated this opinion of mine by quoting Goethe book about plant morphology and Cantor creating the most universal theory of mathematics borrowing the method of an ancient mystic of the 6 th century Dyonisos the Areopagite and borrowing the intuition of the absolute infinite from another mystic, Nicolas de Cues ...... This two example: Goethe scientific method of observation and the phenomonology of perception as analysed by the physicist Henri Bortoft , and on the other side the work on the foundation of Mathematics by Georg Cantor demonstrate my point : Between pure mystical experience and between raw perception of a plant , there is many levels of the prepared mind ...( you can add the reflexions on creativity and spirituality in mathematics with the 3 thousand published pages of Alexander Grothendieck ) Opinion of people here matter less than facts ... And fact demonstrate that the thinking faculty operates on many layers all intricated, nevermind if we are conscious of it or not ... For those ignorant of this , study Carl Gustav Jung the best known psychologist of the century,after Freud ...
Then there is no reason to stop because some need to study or do not remember how to think ... geometry, number theory and the idea of God or The Absolute are not matter of opinion but matter of thinking ...A plant or mammal morphological description is a fact not an opinion ... In the opposite then my quotes can be useful for ONE PERSON here and this is enough for me ... All are not blind , deaf, and completely dismissive of all poets, all mathematicians, all philosophers and of all revelations of natural science and acoustics ...Or are almost all materialist and transhumabnists without even knowing that thyey are ? 😊 Then i will go on discussing especially because i think as the OP and i completey endorse his point of view about music ... ... and i will not close this thread myself ...Save if a majority of people ask for it because a minority of narrow mind ask for it because they felt diminished by the necessary operation of thinking ... Why the world goes so wrong? Because people not only dont want to think but they despise those who think... 😁😊😁😊😁😊
Thanks for your kindness with my verbosity....
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The problem is ascribing "mystery" to things that are not. The poetry in lyrics can be beautiful. It can also be asinine. It can also be generated by extreme suffering, "why does it have to be this way." Layne Stayle. It can also be generated by mysticism, but it is not in itself mystical. Humans do stuff like this all the time, they like writing and typing. Mahgister is a great example. Creating and playing music is far more complicated and we hold those who can do it special, rewarding them huge incomes and special places in history. When I was an infant I would not sleep. My mother tried everything (except putting me in her bedroom). Finally, out of desperation, she put a table radio tuned to an all night music station in the crib with me. It worked great and the music has been playing ever since. The only mystery involved in music is why humans love it so much. It is a universal trait. Whenever you see a trait that is universal in a species somewhere back in time there was a survival benefit as almost all the critters that do not have that trait are not here anymore. I have never seen an adequate explanation for music in humans. The trait is so strong that it is present in infants. You are a great example of mysticism. (IMHO) |
You put in my mouth something i never said to be able after that have a way to dismiss my points...or worst you dont understand anything... You are not fair here... I never said that music is ONLY a mystical experience... Read my post above: between the mystical experience and the casual observation of a plant or of your feet crushing it , there exist MANY LAYERS OF THE THINKING PROCESS ABOVE your feet ...You negate them all to reduce poetry to a trivial matter and music to only something emotional and which can be written , period.... Read Owen Barfield book "poetic diction" : poetry is a felt change in consciousness" ... why a consciousness change by reading an assembly of words why ? And read his short book about science : "saving the appearances "... You reason like an accountant classifying income entries and exits in an account book... Poetry and mysticism that’s that, pure words assembly nothing else; pure debit and expanse at a cost of loosing time; and science that’s that, objective truth , a solid credit in the bank , the rest is just leisure time or at worst that mystical nonsense... You are like these persons without imagination in a Dickens novel ...Here there is something, and here there is nothing save a mystery for poor too imaginative mind ..Your thinking is with two drawers; is it not a bit limited? Do you think Georg Cantor and Alexander Grothendick and Goethe had no idea about science ? Explain to me why Charles Sanders Peirce was in all his life ferociously attacking nominalism ? it is because people like you separated the mind and the things in two uncommunicable Cartesian entities and taught others how to be out of touch with realities because it is very useful to not raise people above their payroll... We live an era where being out of touch push us toward annihilation by the fear of thinking ... And i am not a mystic by the way... In your mouth anyway it is an insult ... Then spare me insults as a way to dismiss my posts without answering any points ...😁There is many layers of the thinking process ; then learn something , between observing your feet and living a mystical experience of consciousness there exist MANY levels of consciousness ... Have you ever read a book ?
A book is precisely something speaking to each of us on many levels and not only two : your feet and the mystic useless poetry ...All book are not instruction manual about EQ or about our feet ...😊
It is not too late to learn , read one ... Try Owen Barfield very short books ... Or if you like too much your feet and dislike poetry try a book on mammal morphology to train your perceptive imagination ...
Wolfgang Schad : man and mammals ... you will stumble from your chair reading this one learning how to go from one level of thinking to another one ...One of the great book i ever read... 😊
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By the way you are certainly a genius because you are able to ascribe each mysteries his place: the trash bin or some awake day dreaming leisure time.. For you no mysteries at all in acoustic or about plant or God... All is settled by your marvellous operating mind .. You know you that mysteries are in a corner and reality in the other corner.. Dumdfounding genius you are ...Over all the stupid too imagimative writers and scientists i spoke about, none of them would have act as simplistic as you though ... ... Are you conscious of what you just wrote ? 😊 No mysteries in Natural science, in acoustics or about god...Plant are DNA evolutive machine , and Bach is only a superstitious man with talent to entertain... No mysteries in the Art of the fugue meanings ... No mysteries in history or in mathematics...
A mystery can be at least two different aspects of a thing AT THE SAME TIME : An unexplained enigma for the time being but even when explained and explaining as the DNA code discovery explained some genetical history enigmas, ANY problems created also a new hard to solve problem at the same time it give a solution to some and then it create a new portal in the mystery of life , a sacred new deep meditation and not a mere technological problem for big pharma to exploit ... On one side thinking mind meditating mysteries and solving problems without never drying up the well of thinking and on the other side industries exploiting them for profit , those one had no time for mysteries trust me ...
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