Using PA Speakers In A Home "Audiophile" Application!

An interesting thread for sure.

@mgrif104 - Great post & fully agree. I too worked in live sound most of my life.

In my main system, I’m using pro audio JBL 18" low frequency drivers. I bought JBL ASB7118 cabinets which were loaded with JBL 2269H 18" drivers. Those drivers were JBL’s best 18’s for maybe a decade or so and are only used in a handful of cabinets including the SUB18 studio monitor sub. I removed the 2269H drivers and had Joe at Stewart Speaker System redesign a pair of cabinets to house the 2269H drivers for a flatter response and in a walnut finish to eliminate the Pro PA look in my living room (see my system in my profile). With the new cabinets, the subs sound fantastic and are quite musical. I’m using JBL 4349 cabinets on top of the 18’s.

So, a good pro audio low frequency driver can make a heck of a home subwoofer. However, few people will wish to go through the hassle of having cabinets made, much less the design process to ensure the right cabinet is designed along with the need for external crossover, amplification, etc. My cabinets are huge for home audio, so not many listening rooms or significant others will put up with a pair of 18" sub cabinets. My setup is done around 32-35 hertz or so and can’t really reproduce down into the 20’s (nor do I really care).

A very good friend is also using 2241 JBL 18" drivers for subs and then a Danley Audio designed 3-way cabinet for the mid/high reproduction. Home audio components drive these speakers. It’s a very interesting listening experience since one can only get that impact from live sound cabinets.

While the Merman’s use some "PA" components, they are quite unlike any other speakers I’ve heard in their presentation, soundstage, and imaging. And don’t even get me started on dynamic impact! It is uncanny and anyone is welcome to come by and hear it for themselves if you get down to Orange County, CA.

And, I have and have heard plenty. I currently have JBL L200/300s, JBL L112s, tri-amped, one-off, Altec Big Red Supers, Chartwell LS3/5As, and others. None can hold a candle to the impact, detail, and 3D imaging of the Mermans.

Currently in my system I am using some touring level outboard gear with what I think are excellent results. I am not using touring level speakers but I have been wanting to compare some of Meyer Sound Labs products like the UPM-1P, UltraX20 and the UltraX40 with what I have for quite awhile. The problem is that I enjoy what I have, so I am having a difficult time getting out of my lazy chair to do the comparison.

I think that touring level pro gear can be unfairly maligned and I’m not sure how many people have done actual comparisons with high end audio gear. I also think that there is a significant difference in sound quality between touring level pro gear and club level pro gear. I would never consider using club level pro gear in my system.

https://meyersound.com/download/ultra-x40-42-datasheet/?wpdmdl=340532&masterkey=5cfaa473ad578

https://meyersound.com/download/ultra-x20-22-23-datasheet/?wpdmdl=1003959&masterkey=5f8758234c28c

https://meyersound.com/download/upm-1p-datasheet/?wpdmdl=2529&masterkey=58b9e771254a0

@audiorusty 

you are correct that there is a large gap between touring and club level gear. The former is much better. But the gear is still designed to play loud and clear, but it will not be as flat in frequency response, nor will it reach as low, or image as well. There is not some magic engineering in pro PA gear that isn’t known by home audio designers. Engineering is engineering.

You can make a PA speaker that can play loud and clear, but to also make it full range, with a cabinet that doesn’t ring (adding distortion, smearing imaging and tone), will cost too much for that market.  

It isn’t done because other factors are more important (weather resistance, durability (when you literally hit it with 5000 watts), ability to play at >110 DB (and higher) and throw that sound a long way. It must hold up to being set up and ttaken down regularly and thrown into a truck without having to worrry about marring the cabinet. But more important than anything else is reliability.  Companies that support big name bands must be able to put on the show no matter what. Reliability under any conditions outweighs everything else. Literally everything.

Could that speaker be engineered? Probably - but I’m not sure. Would it cost what a sound company is willing to pay? Not a chance.  I don’t want to suggest I know all there is to know in this space. Relative to some, I’m a newbie. But I do know that pro-audio gear and home audio gear are two entirely different markets and the gear is designed accordingly. If you want loud and impact, then seek a home audio speaker system that’s based around horns (Klipshorns or something like that?). Yes, you can employ Meyers sound speakers (they’re quite good) at home, but they (probably) won’t offer the fidelity of most any similarly price home audio speaker.

And, if you need reinforcement on the idea that it’s hard to design a speaker that can play loud - and low? Just look at the spec sheets for any of the ones you posted. I did a quick review - none play below 50 hz - a level achieved by even the small home bookshelf speakers.

Best, 

@mgrif104

1) most (not all) music venues are mono - not stereo. This is because you want people everywhere to hear roughly the same sound. Given that pressure levels drop by 3 DB as you square the distance, people on the left side of the hall are not going to hear separate information on the right side of the hall. PA speakers are not designed with imaging in mind if this is important to you.

I am not sure why a well designed PA speaker with a decent off axis response and dispersion characteristics shouldn’t image just as good in a stereo setting. Image depth/perception of layering, etc gets killed largely by the likes of goofy PA amps like Crown, etc. But, hifi amps and dacs should address that.

2) because of the demands for high acoustic volume, most PA speakers (even relatively large ones) will have limited low frequency extension unless you adopt a line array structure (not practical for home use). You’ll also notice how big the subs typically are (often multiple cabinets the size of a VW Bug w/ twin 18” woofers). They’re pretty poor at low bass definition (these are not the most rigid woofers because of their size) but wow can they put out the volume. However, even those huge subs don’t go to 20 hz - typically only down to 30 hz.

IMO, it is good that they don’t have low bass extension. “Full range” is essentially a problem speaker catered to old school audiophiles who don’t wanna deal with subs. Loads of low bass output/extension in the inevitably “wrong location” for bass, ( i.e. the optimal location for a speaker’s imaging) leads to room chaos/ modal hell in a home setting…Not to mention the fact that cabinet costs have to soar exponentially now to contain some chaos when adding octaves on the low end. Subwoofers (modal treatment devices, not just for low end extension) in the right locations are the right tool to address bass extension and modal hell.

3) as others previously mentioned, crossovers built in are for power handling. Many better sounding PAs use outboard crossovers with separate amps.

This…I’m not entirely sure because I’ve never dissected crossovers in any higher quality passive PA speaker. But, I would think they play it conservative/safe with the crossover points to mitigate heat and mechanical distress for the drivers at high SPLs (lot more so than in home speakers). The quality of the crossover components themselves can play into how much detail can be perceived, etc. That may be the only compromise if corners get cut.

4) The cabinets are designed to take the abuse of the road. They’re felt covered plywood or vinyl covered plywood, or plastic. And, they ring like crazy. Because they’re driven to high volumes in larger spaces, nobody cares.

Well, it appears that the speaker the sample speaker I linked on the OP appears to be made of Finnish birch! all the way from Finland!! I’ll sand it down a bit and give it a nice rustic wood stain, make it look pretty. 😁

On the video link I posted above, Levinson is charging audiophiles a measly 100k (!) for what I’m essentially reading as a Pro audio speaker with a nicer looking cabinet and so on. My hope is there are some diamonds hiding in the humongous list of PA speakers out there that would shine at a much lower cost, if the audiophile ethos for front end electronics, room, etc are applied.