Subwoofer speed is in the room, not the box

@gdaddy1 

“Using my ears (crazy isn't it?) I concluded that if your main speakers produce good bass down to 50hz why restrict them? Why? Because it sounded better, fuller, more glorious. Plugging ports and making a sealed cabinet restricts cone movement. Makes the main speaker sound thin and anemic. IMO... if you want a sealed main speaker then it should be properly designed to work that way. Sealing ports and restricting quality speakers as an after thought is a mistake.”

I can rationalize that statement as I feel the same way. I was not sure if the original post is specific to home theater or two channel audio. 
 

My use of subs with my current speakers is only to exaggerate bass from old rock albums. Something like Back in the Saddle by Aerosmith or any glam rock bands of the 80s where double kick drum was predominant in the music. Def Leopard and Aldo Nova come to mind as well. During those sessions I rock out and am not really interested in the audiophile aspect per se, since the music is loud. When listing to more settled music such as jazz, or easy listening, say Eagles or Fleetwood Mac, I find myself turning the subs down or off..unless of course I want to feel that added bass because we are partying. 

I love the overall sound of my speakers as is, Classic Audio Field Coil Loudspeakers T. 1-5 Reference with 18” downward bass and 15” front mid bass, horn loaded with Fostex beryllium tweeter. 

I have been using the Velodyne SMS-1 bass EQ with great success to tackle optimization of 4 SVS 3000 13” subs..well, at my last room. My new room is much larger and I have a pair of 18” Rhtymicaudio subs coming soon for parties. Otherwise, I use the subs when I feel that I might  need extra bass which is occasionally and when experimenting. 

What Erik Squires mentioned about bass being omnipresent in way that feels as if it’s an event is usually realized when the subs are playing louder and providing that emphasis, or the main speakers have been castrated and a portion of the bass region output has been shifted to the subs. It’s definitely a feeling and sometimes more is more and maybe better. I just don’t see me adding another layer of crossover complexity to my straight audio chain since the designers of very capable speakers meant for their speakers to be driven with their designed crossovers to give the best sound for their speaker.,

I hate taking the time to see if this piece of music sounds better with that added feeling, when before, it sounded great as is, especially with big big extra large speakers that can play thunderously loud with pronounced bass depth when required. So, for me, bass augmentation is used sparingly. I am long past the crawl method, injuries  prevent that, but situating subs in good locations as a starting point and measuring away goes a long way. Check phase, and don’t be afraid to aim subs in directions that are not typical. Also, to add more complexity, what about Speaker Boundary Interference Response (SBIR)? This will surely come into play when setting up subwoofers. 

Using my ears (crazy isn’t it?) I concluded that if your main speakers produce good bass down to 50hz why restrict them? Why? Because it sounded better, fuller, more glorious. Plugging ports and making a sealed cabinet restricts cone movement. Makes the main speaker sound thin and anemic.

@audioquest4life

I think what you are missing from the original thesis is that how a speaker performs once placed in a room is very different from the measurements. Sometimes in good ways sometimes in terrible ways.

Your experiences are going to be very room dependent. In your room and with your speakers plugging those ports may sound "thin and anemic" which in another situation might sound less boomy and better balanced. I’ve heard from one A’goner that they found the perfect balance by plugging 1 speaker but not the other.

Nowhere do I universally suggest you should plug all main speakers, but that if you are adding a subwoofer it may be a good option to make it easier to integrate a subwoofer. What matters is the in-room bass response and which option causes fewer headaches to deal with in equalizing the entire system.

@audioquest4life  If subwoofers and main speakers are integrated correctly there is no reason to turn the subs up or down with any genre of music. A system that is tuned correctly does not care what genre you are playing. When I use the term , system I include the room in that category. 

Most audiophiles are ball parking it with their ears which are extremely poor calibration devices. There is no substitute for measurement.  

Good thread, I don’t have a lot to contribute that has not already been said. But I have been highpassing all my speakers with an active crossovers for about 10 years now. Every speakers has sounded better with a highpass of 60hz or higher. The improvement subs bring is staggering when done right. With a 24db slope on both ends 80hz is about a high as I can go before I “hear” my subs (probably need better subs to go higher). 70hz is the sweet spot with my current speaker location and 24db slope. It measures flat and sounds good, I do have pretty large capable speakers that handle 70hz and up just fine. 
 

I find it silly when people chase bigger and bigger speakers at sky high prices for better bass, but refuse to try an actively passed sub system. 
 

james633

820 posts

02-19-2024 at 11:13am 

Good thread, I don’t have a lot to contribute that has not already been said.
 

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I find it silly when people chase bigger and bigger speakers at sky high prices for better bass, but refuse to try an actively passed sub system.

Same sentiment here. Perhaps not “silly” so much as unnecessarily complicated. 😅

I think the main crux of this topic is the cultural inertia that floor-standing speakers enjoy, as the overall concept predates active subwoofers, especially active subs implemented and EQ’ed as > 1 unit. The exact topics as covered in this (highly informative) thread seem rare convo’s among folks employing line arrays, since many (hifi) examples do not reach very far below 100 Hz (mids/high drivers). Sub crossovers below 80 Hz accordingly and quickly become irrelevant for such cases.