Some thoughts on ASR and the reviews


I’ve briefly taken a look at some online reviews for budget Tekton speakers from ASR and Youtube. Both are based on Klippel quasi-anechoic measurements to achieve "in-room" simulations.

As an amateur speaker designer, and lover of graphs and data I have some thoughts. I mostly hope this helps the entire A’gon community get a little more perspective into how a speaker builder would think about the data.

Of course, I’ve only skimmed the data I’ve seen, I’m no expert, and have no eyes or ears on actual Tekton speakers. Please take this as purely an academic exercise based on limited and incomplete knowledge.

1. Speaker pricing.

One ASR review spends an amazing amount of time and effort analyzing the ~$800 US Tekton M-Lore. That price compares very favorably with a full Seas A26 kit from Madisound, around $1,700. I mean, not sure these inexpensive speakers deserve quite the nit-picking done here.

2. Measuring mid-woofers is hard.

The standard practice for analyzing speakers is called "quasi-anechoic." That is, we pretend to do so in a room free of reflections or boundaries. You do this with very close measurements (within 1/2") of the components, blended together. There are a couple of ways this can be incomplete though.

a - Midwoofers measure much worse this way than in a truly anechoic room. The 7" Scanspeak Revelators are good examples of this. The close mic response is deceptively bad but the 1m in-room measurements smooth out a lot of problems. If you took the close-mic measurements (as seen in the spec sheet) as correct you’d make the wrong crossover.

b - Baffle step - As popularized and researched by the late, great Jeff Bagby, the effects of the baffle on the output need to be included in any whole speaker/room simulation, which of course also means the speaker should have this built in when it is not a near-wall speaker. I don’t know enough about the Klippel simulation, but if this is not included you’ll get a bass-lite expereinced compared to real life. The effects of baffle compensation is to have more bass, but an overall lower sensitivity rating.

For both of those reasons, an actual in-room measurement is critical to assessing actual speaker behavior. We may not all have the same room, but this is a great way to see the actual mid-woofer response as well as the effects of any baffle step compensation.

Looking at the quasi anechoic measurements done by ASR and Erin it _seems_ that these speakers are not compensated, which may be OK if close-wall placement is expected.

In either event, you really want to see the actual in-room response, not just the simulated response before passing judgement. If I had to critique based strictly on the measurements and simulations, I’d 100% wonder if a better design wouldn’t be to trade sensitivity for more bass, and the in-room response would tell me that.

3. Crossover point and dispersion

One of the most important choices a speaker designer has is picking the -3 or -6 dB point for the high and low pass filters. A lot of things have to be balanced and traded off, including cost of crossover parts.

Both of the reviews, above, seem to imply a crossover point that is too high for a smooth transition from the woofer to the tweeters. No speaker can avoid rolling off the treble as you go off-axis, but the best at this do so very evenly. This gives the best off-axis performance and offers up great imaging and wide sweet spots. You’d think this was a budget speaker problem, but it is not. Look at reviews for B&W’s D series speakers, and many Focal models as examples of expensive, well received speakers that don’t excel at this.

Speakers which DO typically excel here include Revel and Magico. This is by no means a story that you should buy Revel because B&W sucks, at all. Buy what you like. I’m just pointing out that this limited dispersion problem is not at all unique to Tekton. And in fact many other Tekton speakers don’t suffer this particular set of challenges.

In the case of the M-Lore, the tweeter has really amazingly good dynamic range. If I was the designer I’d definitely want to ask if I could lower the crossover 1 kHz, which would give up a little power handling but improve the off-axis response.  One big reason not to is crossover costs.  I may have to add more parts to flatten the tweeter response well enough to extend it's useful range.  In other words, a higher crossover point may hide tweeter deficiencies.  Again, Tekton is NOT alone if they did this calculus.

I’ve probably made a lot of omissions here, but I hope this helps readers think about speaker performance and costs in a more complete manner. The listening tests always matter more than the measurements, so finding reviewers with trustworthy ears is really more important than taste-makers who let the tools, which may not be properly used, judge the experience.

erik_squires

A few measurements are insufficient perhaps, but very useful.

Only ignorants will contradict that...😊

 

But only ignorant will use this to dismiss any listeners impressions.. As some objectivist do systematically ...

Photography indeed is an art too, it is the eye of human who do the job and the negative treatment or DSP used artistically by the users...

And yes painting is very hard. This is why i admired painters as much as musicians...

I like Vinci and Turner... And i am very fond of naive and primitive art....

 

As Amir stated earlier, it’s really only when specific measurement claims are made and not met that there is any real problem. Nobody is doubting anyone’s subjective impressions and preferences, although we may doubt the stories told about what causes those preferences.

I like that kind of art too. I mentioned the photograph’s effect because at one time I was looking at paintings made through the centuries and noticed a sudden ability towards incredible realism around the late 1800s. It then occurred to me that it happened about when photography hit the scene, and then I learned that a lot of art focused people consider that kind of art to be not very good art. It would have been an incredible feat if someone had done it without seeing photography. And there were some who did it at least somewhat by using camera obscuras.

Art is wed to science

but nobody will ever know which one is the mother

and which one the  father here

because they reincarnate together for eternity

and change sex... 😊

We are their children though....

Measurements will tell you nothing how a speaker will sound in your room, using your equipment, and what kind of music you listen too. It’s been proven that some of the best sounding gear measures bad and vice versa. I never look at a reviewers measurements, and I don’t take any of the audio reviewers from the magazines conclusions since they are always positive. I only subscribe to a couple of these magazines to see what is new. 
I attend many audio shows and I get a feel on how the speaker will sound. If I feel these speakers will sound good in my room with my system, then I will work with the dealer or manufacturer for a 30 day trial.

In the end, my ears will decide what sounds best.

I agree with everything you're saying, however several of the bigger YouTube channels are sellouts as well, so they're not much different than the magazine's. Some of them get free gear.