2. analog
  3. 189527-245

MC-MM-MI CARTRIDGES . DO YOU KNOW WHICH HAS BETTER QUALITY PERFORMANCE? REALLY?

Dear friends:The main subject of this thread is start a dialogue to find out the way we almost all think or be sure about the thread question :  " true " answer.

 

Many years ago I started the long Agon MM thread where several audiophiles/Agoners and from other audio net forums participated to confirm or to discover the MM/MI/IM/MF/HOMC world and many of us, me including, was and still are" surprised for what we found out in that " new " cartridge world that as today is dominated by the LOMC cartridges.

 

Through that long thread I posted several times the superiority of the MM/types of cartridges over the LOMC ones even that I owned top LOMC cartridge samples to compare with and I remember very clearly that I posted that the MM and the like cartridges had lower distortion levels and better frequency range quality performance than the LOMC cartridges.

 

In those times j.carr ( Lyra designer ) was very active in Agon and in that thread  I remember that he was truly emphatic  posting that my MM conclusion was not  true due that things on distortion cartridge levels in reality is the other way around: LOMC has lower distortion levels.

 

Well, he is not only a LOMC cartridge designer but an expert audiophile/MUSIC lover with a long long and diverse first hand experiences listening cartridges in top TT, top tonearms and top phono stages and listening not only LOMC cartridges but almost any kind of cartridges in his and other top room/systems.

 

I never touched again that subject in that thread and years or months latter the MM thread I started again to listening LOMC cartridges where my room/system overall was up-graded/dated to way superior quality performance levels than in the past and I posted somewhere that j.carr was just rigth: LOMC design were and are superior to the other MM type cartridges been vintage or today models.

 

I'm a MUSIC lover and I'm not " married " with any kind of audio items or audio technologies I'm married just with MUSIC and what can gives me the maximum enjoyment of that ( every kind )  MUSIC, even I'm not married with any of my opinions/ideas/specific way of thinking. Yes, I try hard to stay " always " UNBIASED other than MUSIC.

 

So, till today I followed listening to almost every kind of cartridges ( including field coil design. ) with almost every kind of tonearms and TTs and in the last 2 years my room/system quality performance levels were and is improved by several " stages " that permits me better MUSIC audio items judgements and different enjoyment levels in my system and other audio systems. Yes, I still usemy test audio items full comparison proccess using almost the same LP tracks every time and as always my true sound reference is Live MUSIC not other sound system reproduction.

 

I know that the main thread subject is way complicated and complex to achieve an unanimous conclusions due that exist a lot of inherent differences/advantages/unadvantages in cartridges even coming from the same manufacturer.

 

We all know that when we talk of a cartridge we are in reality talking of its cantilever buil material, stylus shape, tonearm used/TT, compliance, phono stage and the like and my " desire " is that we could concentrate in the cartridges  as an " isolated " audio item and that  any of our opinions when be posible  stay in the premise: " everything the same ".

 

My take here is to learn from all of you and that all of us try to learn in between each to other and not who is the winner but at the " end " every one of us will be a winner.

 

So, your posts are all truly appreciated and is a thread where any one can participates even if today is not any more his analog alternative or is a newcomer or heavily experienced gentleman. Be my guest and thank's in advance.

 

Regards and ENJOY THE MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

Ag insider logo xs@2xrauliruegas
Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,101 posts
 

@mijostyn : It’s not coincidence that the Denon DL1000A not only goes to 110khz but runs at only 0.7grs been a LOMC cartridge but its cantilever that’s a short one is made of amorphous Boron pipe. The Highphonic uses diamond short cantilever and very high compliance to runs at 0.9grs.

 

Btw, Technics uses a technical: chemical vapor deposition to manufacture its cartridges Boron pipe.

Top cartridges in those times normally came with effective moving mass in the range: 0.098-0.22. Usually. The Technics 20’5MK4 had 0.149 on that parameter.

 

Today we can’t find out any single cartridge with those kind of numbers or any LOMC cartridge that can runs not at 0.7grs-0.9 not even at 1.25grs

Today times are very good and in the past were truly great specially with cartridges/tonearms/TTs but not electronics. Today are great times in electronics and very good in speakers if not excellent.

 

R.

 

mervo
34 posts
 

     This thread is so far removed from the original poster (OP) that I won't even try to bring this one back. I have 3 Rega turntables and after the 4th time switching out the spacers from my B880 tonearm, I braised the locking screws. I became disgusted with the Rega (control freak) way even though the Asia, Asia Pro and Apheta 3 I had use previously were auto synched to the table, I wanted to experience other MC offerings which required spacers.

     In any event, I decided to buy a Technics 1210 G and added several cartridges on different headshells including an AT33GTP/II MC (excellent), a Hana Shibata MC and a Denon 103R. I then added an Ortofon Black 2m (MM) to the mix and started doing some comparisons. 

     The least expensive cartridge in this lot is the Denon 103R, but at $600 it is open and breathes easy, especially for a conical stylus. The Ortofon Black 2M is probably among the best moving magnet designs I ha=ve ever heard but it lacks that high end my B & W Signature 702 S2s command. Don't get me wrong, in many systems, higher end moving coil cartridges are not a good value. My system is fairly high end and I invest more $$$ for cartridges to maximize the sound profile I am looking for. 

     On my Rega Planar 3 anniversary, I tried the Apheta 3 and realized that anything above the Ania Pro would not improve the sound. I then put the Exact 2 back on it and it performed well. Sounded within its boundaries. The Ania was a small upgrade from there, but in this mid-fi kit, (speakers are B & W 703 S2s), these carts were fine.

     Finally, we all hear distinctly and what may be too high in the treble, may be perfect for someone else. I prefer natural bass with a reasonable decay (I balance the 702 Sigs with a REL ST/9x)--my daughter, the disco queen feels the "bass" is too light. As I said to each his own. Bottom Line: our collective audiophile hobby has no price points, just the desire to appreciate music and seek the respective affordable way to attain one's maximum output.

 

     

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,101 posts
 

Dear @mervo  : I don't know what you mean: " removed by the OP ", I did not.

 

You are totally right with your last sentences:

 

"  our collective audiophile hobby has no price points, just the desire to appreciate music and seek the respective affordable way to attain one's maximum output. "

 

That's the best each one of us can do. Thank's for share your opinion.

R.

 

mijostyn's avatar
mijostyn
8,570 posts
 

@rauliruegas It is very true that none of our modern day cartridges are near as compliant and track as light as cartridges back in the 70s and 80s, nor should they. The contact patches of modern styluses are far larger and the pressure loading even lighter than it was in spite of the lower compliance and higher VTFs. We discovered that those featherweight tonearms of yor do not sound near as good as modern, stiff, intermediate mass arms which require a lower compliance. I am very happy with the performance of modern cartridges and tonearms and have no desire to live in the past.  Mike

Ag insider logo xs@2x
rauliruegas OP
13,101 posts
 

Dear @mijostyn : I don’t know why you are following posting no-sense information almost false and un-true.

Medium mass tonearm " require lower compliance ": totally false at any audio standard.

I own amodern mediummass tonearm and several vintage medium tonearms, I know what I’m talking about. You can ask lewm how good performs and with which kind of quality high compliance cartridges in his FR64/66.

" contact patches of modern styluses are far larger ", false again. MSL uses a semi-line contact, Ortofon still today uses Shibata/FG 70/FG80 y FG 100 not even the FG 110/120, Etsuro Gold 80u Micro-Line similar to the old AT cartridges.

Where is the problem then? that today LOMC cartridges are to heavy: your MC Diamond 17.5grs, MSL13grs, etc, etc.

The other problem is that today does not exist the heavy and very hard competence that in the old times cartridge market.

Matsudaira designer MSL cartridges designed too ( example ) Luxman vintage LOMC cartridges with a lower weight than 6grs. and with high compliance as other cartridges as Miyabi or Audiocraft that were not so diferents than the Luxman ( I owned severalof his cartridges including Supex. )

You love analog and tubes so you are living in the PAST not only me, difference is that I truly know how achieve maximum MUSIC enjoyment with that really archaic analog medium.

You know that I respect you but certainly not the false information you are sharing with us.

R.

 

 

 

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