why expensive streamers

I am a big fat sealion then.

@mitch2 

To me, the issue is not whether there’s no jitter, it’s whether there’s a substantial difference in jitter across streamers, how much jitter we’re talking about, and the extent to which different DACs reject jitter from streamers.

As I’ve previously indicated, I have found the “lab report” section of HiFi News streamer reviews incredibly insightful.  I’ve looked at the results from 10 different streamer reviews over about 4 years; in 5 of them they use a usb connection to a computer as their control scenario vs. the streamer, and then they use up to 3 different DACs with both the computer and the streamer.  All 10 of the reviews I’ve pulled feature the Mytek Brooklyn dac, 6 include the iFi Neo iDSD, and 4 include the AQ Dragonfly.  Here are some takeaways:

1) The Mytek has low jitter levels itself, and also is very effective at rejecting any streamer-induced jitter;

2) The iFi is a low jitter DAC, but is not nearly as effective at rejecting streamer-induced jitter; and 

3) The amount of jitter produced by all 10 of the streamers, priced from £1k to £25k, is very low, and doesn’t vary materially by price.

How did I arrive  at these conclusions?  Here are several snippets of the data:

- the single highest jitter number, 550 psec, was with the computer/iFi combo, substantially more than the computer/Dragonfly number (300 psec).

- but, when paired with a decent streamer (e.g., the Volumio Riva or Aurender N200), the iFi’s jitter amount was substantially less than the Dragonfly (18 & 9 psec v. 150 & 135 psec, respectively.

- the Mytek’s jitter levels were never above 10 psec, whether using the computer or one of the 10 streamers.  

So while a decent DAC, in this case the iFi, may not be engineered to reject jitter from a streamer, you don’t need to spend much to have a very low-jitter streamer.  That’s why a Raspberry Pi can sound so good - many DACs, even moderately priced, do a good job of rejecting jitter from a streamer.  But to be safe, you can invest a little more than $150 and get a very low-jitter streamer.  

I feel like there needs to be some consequences when audiophile companies rip off rich people and the hobby they love.

 

Well, there it is. Again. Everyone should buy the Topping because it measures perfectly, and therefore nothing else will sound better. We are all such fools. I feel so ripped off. Guess I’ll sell all my expensive streamer and DAC gear and buy something more practical, like carbon fiber wheels for my car.

Oh, and don’t forget to like and subscribe the above video, because you know, this digital expert who has never designed any digital gear in his short life said so.

Let me guess, he is very popular in places where people can't think for themselves, like ASR.

@mclinnguy 

my main point in this whole thread has been that it is very common for many of us to cite “lower noise” to explain differences in sound that we can’t otherwise explain.  but there’s this weird cognitive dissonance among many when confronted with actual measurements of noise; they cite marketing materials promising “decreased jitter and noise” and their experience of improved sound, rather than accepting actual evidence and then trying to figure out more plausible explanations for what they’re hearing.

by way of example, on another thread a while back, the op was insisting that a new streamer’s noise level had to explain the improvement in sound he was experiencing.  when pushed to reveal what his actual A/B experience was, it turned out he preferred a non-oversampling algorithm that deferred to the native sample rate of his new set-up vs. the always oversampled algorithm of his old setup.  in other words, he was definitely hearing a difference, he just hadn’t done the right analysis to figure out why.