Power Cord for Accuphase Amplifier

rtorchia

What can be more arrogant than to dismiss science in favor of pure subjectivity?

That’s a logical fallacy, straw man argument:

• By exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone’s argument, it’s much easier to present your own position as being reasonable, but this kind of dishonesty serves to undermine honest rational debate.

No one here is suggesting that science be dismissed - except you.

The basis for science is observation. Theory follows observation, then testing both positive and negative cases to prove a theory to be true. Observing and analyzing sound quality and the equipment producing it involves many dozens of variables. While there are a number of known and measured variables there are many more not measured and fully understood. Ultimately in this very complex landscape observation is more time effective than trying to understand all the science, particularly as a part time hobbyist. Also, trying to use a few variables to explain sound quality is a just gross oversimplification.

On top of this you have differences in perception… from different skill levels. If you are new to assessing sound quality, then you may only notice gross differences in tonal balance and detail. As you develop skill, particularly if you do this in parallel with reading about sound qualities and then listening for the dozens of discernible attributes, you learn. You can keep learning more and more over decades. So, where you are in this development will change your perceptions of sound quality. Finally, we value different sound qualities differently.

So, while science is interesting (I am trained and was a practicing professional scientist for over a decade)… high end audio is  primarily an observational pursuit if you are looking to put together a great sounding system. Thinking somehow that if an audio effect or cause does not have a confirmed scientific explanation and therefore is suspect  or wrong is absolutely ridiculous. While a few gross effects on sound quality are easily scientifically explained, most are not… or are just not worth the Herculean effort required.  

So observation is key and the more experienced and educated you are in it the greater will be your ability to observe and describe the effects on a system of different pieces of equipment.

Audio is not a objective endeavor from a listening point of view, it has to be subjective because the hardware has too many variables when interacting with other components. You then have human hearing and brain function where no 2 people on the planet are the same.

This is why I generally don't recommend any components for threads like this one.

“Audio is not a objective endeavor…
@dill, well said. 

@jfrmusic

Really well written, it’s like there are actual adults still around 😄

@rtorchia

I think the issue here is we all listen and perceive sound in different ways. It may simply be some are left brain and some right brain dominant. Obviously you can’t be convinced that cables make a difference and I can never concede that they don’t. We have both had different experiences. I’m not going to be dogmatic about this. However I can’t un- hear what I’ve heard for years and I certainly can’t expect your experience to change your perspective however ASR to me is very dogmatic. There are no exceptions to their position that only measurements matter and they seem unwilling to use the best measurement possible - their own ears. And if they do then we’re back to the different ways we perceive sound and more specifically music. Another possibility is that those of us who are “ subjective” oriented may be sensitive to and listen to reproduction characteristics that are not important to “objective” minded listeners. I’ve always believed there is a distinct difference between hearing music and listening. It’s a matter of degree of focus. Focus that is directed towards specific presentation characteristics.

ASR offers a service that has value. Specification testing is important to verify a manufacturer’s claims. But to say that the specifications of audio equipment will always tell you exactly how it will sound is short sighted

I initially went to ASR 4 years ago when I was getting back into audio. They led me to the Benchmark products which are highly revered there. So I bought the Benchmark stack : Amp, Pre, DAC. Great products especially for the money and of course they measure impeccably. When looking for speakers I heard other products with the speakers I bought. I realized even though Benchmark measured off the charts other products actually sounded better. After upgrading and confirming at home I went back to ASR to report that I found other amplifiers that sounded noticeably better than Benchmark even though stated specs were not as high as the Benchmark. Well the dogmatic tidal wave hit me and called me delusional. It was untenable to them. All amps once given level of basic specs are met all sound the same. There was no room for even consideration. It was like I was threatening their perception of reality. I had just experienced auditions of two or three amps with my speakers, DAC and streamer and they all sounded different and better than the Benchmark I had. So where does that leave us? We just have to go our separate ways. Those of us who have experienced these differences in amps, cables etc will enjoy the hobby and our search for more life like reproduction. Those who feel comfortable with living by the spec will enjoy their equipment knowing they have a component that meets their measurements criteria. I would never label the ASR group as delusional as they seem to think us subjective minded are. I just think they are unfortunately missing out on the greater improvement and refinement that is attainable. But as I noted those types of musical characteristics we are sensitive to may not be the ones important for them.