Feel Silly Asking This Question Alignment Parameters


I feel silly asking this question, but here it goes. Most of the arms I have owned over the years have came with proprietary protractors, and certain ones like the SME are really just overhang gauges. For other ones I have bought custom generated arc protractors for the specific arm. I will probably do so again with this Origin Live arm. However in the mean time i decided to set up using their provided protractor. 

When I went to install a cartridge on the table, I found I was not wild about using their protractor, so I decided to generate a Conrad H arc protractor till I made an order for an Accutrak one. What I found odd is that Lofgren A had the longest overhang at 16.8 mm and  Lofgren B at 16.3mm. The Origin Live shows 17.5 mm. Is the Rega type alignment that much different than Lofgren or Stevenson? I also noticed with the OL alignment that cartridge offset in the headshell was noticeably greater. 

What is also noticeable is the sonics of each alignment is different. To be honest, I like the overall sound of the OL alignment, but I also have this nagging feeling that it does not track as well. 

 

I always felt at this stage of my audio journey I knew how to align a cartridge. I have been doing it since I was in my 20's! Now I have a large degree of uncertainty of which alignment to choose, and what the implications are if i choose wrong. This arm is a long term keeper for me, so its a matter of wanting to get this set up optimized. 

 

Any insights you might pass along is greatly appreciated. Do have a good chuckle at my expense as it seems that I get into these moments of self doubt, and trying to find the way out of the forest of audio can be quite comical. 

neonknight

@mijostyn I think you are talking about hearing errors in alignment which I totally agree are easily audible versus differences in the geometry you choose to align to.

But I am curious about your statement about "twisting the cartridge in the headshell a few degrees", by which I think you mean the zenith adjustment.  I have yet to find any information about how you can tell in which direction and by how much your zenith is in error.  Most of us simply align the cantilever since we have no way of aligning the diamond but as @macg19 points out and JR at Wally Tools has asserted the zenith error in how the stylus is mounted to the cantilever can significantly exceed the generally small errors that occur when carefully mounting the cartridge to the tonearm. 

Other than randomly twisting the cartridge back and forth and listening is there any way know in what direction and by how much the zenith error (including the error in the stylus mounted to the cantilever) is?  And I mean without paying Wally Tools $500 for their cartridge analysis service.

@neonknight : I don’t know from where have you those overhang distances in the OP because the normal calculation for that P2S distance puts you almost there and at the end is that with the calculated Löfgren A overhang you have not any trouble with the null points:

 

Tonearm Alignment Calculator Pro - Vinyl Engine

 

"  its a matter of wanting to get this set up optimized. "

 

There are several ways to optimize a tonearm/cartridge alignment set up at the one with lower traking distotion/error is the SAT tonearm alignment that any one can use.

 

R.

Dear @mijostyn : " I prefer Lofgren B. Lofgren B generates less distortion...."

For many years my way of thinking was exactly yours till you fall in count that those tiny differences ( we can see in all those VE links I posted. ) and everything the same no one including a bat can distinguis in between no matter what and the best trade-offs per sé is Löfgren A.Everything the same how can you detect a difference in tracking distotion between Löfgren A and B when the measured groove to groove at each mm. change at lower than 0.01%? Changes is so tiny that we accustom to thozse changes with out detect that tiny changes.

 

Makes sense to you? because all of us have big imagination.

 

R.

@neonknight : " This document is reproduced here by kind agreement of Mark Baker at Origin Live. "

 

" Rega arms and Origin Live arms require mounting dimensions such that the centre of the platter to the centre of arm hole is approx 223mm plus or minus 2mm tolerance and the hole diameter for the arm is 24mm to 25mm. "

 

At P2S 225 distance L¨fgren B gives you 17.53 that has no consequwences in your 17.5 desired overhang.

 

Cartridge 2 Point Alignment Protractor (originlive.com)

 

You can read OL uses Löfgren A. I gave you the calculations for in one of the links.

 

In the other side it's easy to ask OL which kind of advantages gives its alignment against other normal alignments, I think you need to know and evaluate if is what you need or could not makes a differences.

 

R.

@rauliruegas Absolutely, the difference is probably not easily audible. It is a technical superiority. These technical issues do add up over an entire system, looking at 100s of small issues like this.......in theory. I do have a rather fine sounding system....I think.

@pinwa  No, that is not Zenith error, twisting the cartridge ( cantilever) is induced tracking error. Zenith error is the stylus twisted in the cantilever. Frankly, I have yet to see an example of this, although given the errors I have seen I am sure it happens. You need very strong magnification to see it which most audiophiles do not have. It is great for JR's business, the ghost in the machine. The cartridge is stupid in this regard. As long as there are two contact patches in contact with the groove the cartridge will make music. If you study the geometry of the stylus tip there would have to be a huge zenith error before it would interfere with tracking. The phase error might interfere with proper imaging, might. The cantilever out of alignment is a far more serious issue. 

@neonknight I forgot to mention. The most common mistake I see when setting up a cartridge is the technician does not neutralize the antiskating mechanism before setting the overhang and offset. This will substantially angle the cantilever when you set the stylus down. The cantilever should never change angles from its resting position even when playing a record. If it does something is wrong.