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What is turntable “liveliness”.

I have listened to turntables for sixty years. I bought my first high end TT about thirty years… it was revelatory. I do not swap tables often. I do a huge amount of research and then stay with one for fifteen years or so. My most recent upgrade was from a VPI Aries (heavy mass) to a Linn LP12 (light weight, sprung)…very nearly the very top level. Could we please not turn this into a religious thing about Linn… mine is an outstanding TT which compares favorably with any other $45K analog leg (TT, cartridge, and Phonostage)

The term lively comes up in descriptions. One of the differences in character I noticed between the VPI and Linn… which I thought might be considered liveliness was to me a bit of what I perceived as the images very slightly jumping around… the kind of thing you would think of when you see films of “The Flash” maybe vibrating in place. While I found this gave me the feeling of the notes wanting to jump out at me, I found it a bit disconcerting. I attributed it to a relatively light weight rig, that is really good at rejecting low frequency vibrations (it is a sprung table… known to be lively sounding) up to a relatively high frequency… but beyond that not. Something a really heavy rig would not be effected by.

 

To test my theory, I had a Silent Running Ohio Class vibration platform constructed for my turntable. The image smear, as I called it disappeared. There is no smear and it has great solidity.

Is this attribute “liveliness”?

ghdprentice
mahgister's avatar
mahgister
13,195 posts
 

I believe the OP...

And i believe those who will contradict him...

How this is so in my mind ?

Simple,

Give me any turntable with any system in any room, i will use acoustics basic knowledge to improve the turntable or the Dac perceived results...

Then i dont know which is better at any price for all involved brands name between turntables and dacs and almost nobody knows at the end ...( i believe because i had no reason to doubt it  that "at the end" but ONLY for some lucky audiophile with TOP acoustic room and TOP designed gear to do the comparison turntables are the best as mikelavigne claim )

But i know very well by experiments what acoustics dispositions and devices linking ears/speakers/room can do and it is huge in almost all case for almost all audiophiles with or without turntables...

I dont claim here that there is no differences between gear design quality or gear types...

Acoustics matter as much as the gear at least and at last...

Then owning dac or turntable matter way less than acoustics  for most of us...

cool

 

mapman's avatar
mapman
22,413 posts
 

Can’t say that rings a bell as described but should not happen. Maybe a sign of stylus not tracking properly perhaps due to setup and or tonearm/cart mismatch issues. Could also have something to do with inherent cart design and/or performance. Cart picking up some kind of high frequency vibration also a possibility .

 

Turntables are very brittle  devices. A lot can go wrong very easily.

pindac's avatar
pindac
2,864 posts
 

As a Marketing Term used as Speil to get a reaction, the term' Prat' if invented by a individual from the UK has more than one connotation. 

As it was directed to a Audience of what one would suggest to be mainly mail. Iy can only be suggested a Misogeny is an underlying context for the creation of the term 'Pfat'

 

For the Linn TT design, making the Statement as Speil 

"She's a Belter" might have been kinder to the  females of the UK

ghdprentice OP
7,256 posts
 

@mulveling

Thank you for your comments. I find my observations very roughly follow yours… but you mention dark… I my observational word is solidity. So, definitely not the same but in a broad spectrum… over in the same area. I’ll have to ponder your comments some more.

@mapman

Thanks for your comment. Hmmm, good thought. Of course it went away with isolation. 
 

 

mulveling's avatar
mulveling
1,963 posts
 

Thank you for your comments. I find my observations very roughly follow yours… but you mention dark… I my observational word is solidity. So, definitely not the same but in a broad spectrum… over in the same area. I’ll have to ponder your comments some more.

@ghdprentice  I can definitely see "solidity" being a better term in some contexts. My friend with an HW-40 would call it "solidity" too. Your isolation & support structure, and gear partners (especially cartridge) matter a lot. Choice of arm (metal vs. 3D) also influences this. I think it's no coincidence VPI partners with Van den Hul (lively with lots of top-end energy) and Audio-Technica cartridges. I had great results with a VdH Crimson on VPI, and even more impressive w/ Colibri on Avenger if not for that Colibri being a bit of a sibilance machine (not the table's fault).

Across a number of contexts made as similar-as-possible, I extrapolated the VPI tables as being a bit "dark" relative to SOTA and Clearaudio Innovations. The Avenger more so than Aries 3. The 3D / Fatboy arms more so than metal.

I really really liked AirTight PC-7 on VPI tables; it can be a little hot on Clearaudio but wow on a VPI. Too bad it was discontinued :( 

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