Jazz for aficionados

@stuartk ,

Chris Potter is an amazing tenor saxophonist. A technical wizard who in recent times was bested in that department probably only by Michael Brecker. Amazing technician who is also very creative as a soloist. I like him very much.

As you point out he “can certainly handle very slippery timing and harmonically ambiguous settings” (great comment, btw). However, I hope we can agree that not every player is great in every musical setting, even if they can “handle” each setting’s particular musical demands. When in settings established by an artist on the level of a Miles Davis, to be able to handle the demands is simply not enough. There has to be a compatible style and creative vision that causes “the whole to be greater than the sum of its parts”. Great leaders (Miles) demand that.

Potter plays in a decidedly post-Coltrane style and like Brecker shows hints of a Jazz/Rock sensibility in his tone and inflections. He did play with Steely Dan for some time, after all. Personally, I think he owes quite a bit to Brecker, stylistically. He is very assertive. Some would say aggressive. While he has amazing command of the instrument, harmony and rhythm, as you point out, I don’t hear a lot of command or use of the abstract. Miles’ music during the Second Great Quintet period could be VERY abstract. Would he have been what Miles was looking for in a tenor player at that point in his career? I’m not so sure. A post-Coltrane sensibility is probably not what Miles was looking for at that point. For his later electric period? Much safer bet.

I hope this explains my reasoning (just one man’s opinion).

I love this:

https://youtu.be/DiDt5LNXsMY?si=TrzF2f_l_fCUvgJT

@frogman 

Thanks for your response. I'm always learning something new from your posts !

Perhaps my ear is simply not sufficiently acute to perceive the dominant  "Jazz/Rock sensibility" you pick up on in Potter's playing. Or perhaps this is simply a result of my not having heard him in enough settings to form a more rounded opinion. 

As far as abstraction is concerned, it was not atypical for the Dave Holland Quintet (live at least) to venture "outside". The music could get fairly Free during such interludes. You might have disagreed with me had you been sitting in the venue but at such times, but what was played did not in my ears/brain, evoke associations or parallels with/to Jazz/Rock's harmonic language. More like Freed-up New Orleans style simultaneous improv. 

I now see I misunderstood your original comment. I didn't consider whether Miles would've found Potter's playing in synch with his vision at the time Shorter was enlisted. I'm sure you're right that Miles was not looking for a Coltrane disciple at that point. 

Finally, regarding the link, Shai Maestro's playing sounds quite Pop-influenced to me. That's not something that, to my ear, figures strongly in Dave Holland's compositions, so I wouldn't expect Potter to respond the same way. Having said that, I'm not a professional musician. No doubt there is much that is obvious to you that I miss!  

@stuartk ,

Thank you for your post.

You are a very astute listener (I believe you are also a musician). Your posts make it obvious that you have very good ears and understanding of the music, so no apology necessary for your discernment. Quite the contrary. I always appreciate your posts as well.  A couple of “fine tunings” to what I wrote previously.

I did not at all say that Potter’s style has a “dominant Jazz/Rock sensibility”. I wrote “hints of a Jazz/Rock sensibility”. Btw, to have some Jazz/Rock sensibility is not a negative at all in my book.  It is the reality of where the music went over the course of the last four or five decades. If one listens to Michael Brecker, broadly considered to be the greatest of the post-Coltrane tenor players one can hear a similarity in Potter’s tone and more subtly in his inflections. (Brecker, who was very prominent in the Jazz/Rock and Pop genres as well as mainstream Jazz was a huge influence on tenor players of the last five decades or so). As opposed to, for instance, Joe Lovano, a contemporary of both Brecker and Potter who has a decidedly different tone approach. Warmer and less aggressive and at times ethereal as opposed to the “horn about to split at the seams” tone approach that characterizes most post-Coltrane players.

Early(ish) Brecker with the recently posted guitarist Jack Wilkins. This record was posted here a couple of years ago:

https://youtu.be/WyqcP03Mj9s?si=DXk4HxfmSZz_PiB1

I love all Wilkins albums it seems ...

Especially this one too :

https://youtu.be/WyqcP03Mj9s?si=DXk4HxfmSZz_PiB1

@frogman 

Ah -- "hint of..." -- my mistake!  

Yes; I can definitely see how Lovano and Potter differ. 

This isn't the case regarding Potter and Brecker. I'm not disputing the parallels you draw, it's just that I haven't listened much to Brecker. I'm generally not a fan of whatever one calls electrified amalgamations of Jazz , Rock, Pop and Funk (as distinct from early "classic Fusion" ala Mahavishnu) and Brecker seems to have recorded an awful lot in that vein. I have heard a few examples of Brecker playing in straight ahead all-acoustic settings and while I admire his "iron" chops and  intelligence, I don't find him particularly emotionally engaging. I'm aware that Potter has released some more commercial-sounding recordings but I haven't heard them. The recordings I have heard by him have not left me feeling emotionally unengaged. For one thing, he displays a lyrical bent at times that seems very different from what I've heard so far from Brecker. 

 I know -- "Ignorance of the Jazz is no excuse" -- I shouldn't be so constrained by my tastes.  Although they sound like quite different players to these ears, I'll take your word for it regarding Brecker's influence on Potter.