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Placing Instrument Separation of Large Ensembles in Recordings

I have noticed that my stereo presents solo piano recordings with more realism and impact than any others. And that’s great but I can’t just listen to piano all of the time. I will say that I have mostly zero objections to other chamber music ensemble recordings, regardless of their instrumentation. But when it comes to orchestral recordings, it seems to be all over the place. Some recordings sound like the orchestra has been divided into blocks and fitted together. So that might entail a block consisting of double basses, tympani and bassoons fitted with a block consisting of cellos, French horns and percussion, etc… In this scenario, it’s hard to differentiate instrument separation within those blocks. Some recordings sound like sections of the orchestra are divided from the center and then segmented outwards. Other recordings sound as though microphone placement is done according to their respective sections, first violins, second violins, violas, cellos, double basses, etc… And to me, this makes the most sense however it’s still sometimes difficult to make out what’s what. So is it my equipment, or is it the quality of the microphones and their placement? I will say that I find some orchestral recordings to be very good in this regard, i.e. mostly 128 cycle DSD downloads. While others make me think of sitting on the DC Beltway during rush hour. (No I don’t live in the District of Columbia). To a large degree, my thought is that this is normal and that different recording techniques will render different results. It’s simple to realize that newer recordings will have a technical advantage over older recordings. Though I have heard early stereo recordings (i.e. RCA Living Stereo) that were remastered and they sounded remarkable. Anyway, I’d appreciate input from others on this matter. Thanks!

128x128goofyfoot
mahler123
3,305 posts
 

I listen exclusively to classical and I am familiar with your streamer.  I don’t know the amp and the 

Orchestral Music is difficult to reproduce.  My own system improved when I added DSP and added a sub.  The DSP help correct for room modes and the way that you describe the blackness of orchestra reproduction in your system this may be an issue.  And Quads are notoriously bass shy speakers so a musical sub will probably help a lot

bdp24's avatar
bdp24
9,788 posts
 

 

Consumers are at the mercy of record producers and engineers. As @onhwy61 and @rick_n stated, there are a number of different recording philosophies and techniques, each with it's own resulting sound characteristics.

If you ever come upon any ARK Records LP's, snap 'em up! They were engineered by loudspeaker designer Robert Fulton (Fulton Musical Industries, a/k/a FMI), who recorded local (Minnesota) church choirs and organists. The LP's feature startling-alive sounding recordings, with amazing inner detail. You can hear each individual voice in the choir, for instance. Liquidly-transparent sound, almost as good as a direct-2-disk LP.

 

yoyoyaya's avatar
yoyoyaya
733 posts
 

Pinpoint separation of instruments in an orchestra doesn't exist in real life. So, arguably, the recordings with the least separation are the most accurate.

goofyfoot's avatar
goofyfoot OP
1,368 posts
 

@bdp24 Thanks, is there a website URL for ARK recordings? I looked but I’m not finding what I think you’re referring to. 
I have to expand a bit on my post. When I buy CD’s (yes I still prefer the archaic CD unless it’s a DSD download) I research it first by reading reviews online. I believe I am buying quality. If you were to look at my fairly large collection, I believe you would find that most titles have been given awards of some sort. But I still find that there are sometimes patches in the recording that don’t sound like I would expect. The idea that individual instruments cannot be heard in large ensemble playing because each section is playing the same section of the score is not correct. Conductors have this responsibility to evaluate each player to make sure that phrasing, intonation, etc… are consistent and reflective of the performance practice intended by the composer (in most cases). There’s also the matter of idiosyncrasies in the players technique and the sound of the instrument itself. I think it could be said that no two violins sound exactly alike. 
While I have faith in my equipment, I’ve been disenchanted by some new recordings. 

pwerahera
120 posts
 

@onhwy61  +1

Your description re orchestral recording is correct. It is unclear why OP is trying to hear each individual violin whether they are 1st or 2nd violins. One hear these as a group, not as individual instruments.Similarly for cellos and double bass. One can hear solo wind instruments. OP should try chamber music, string quartets, quintets, piano trios, quartets and quintets (Schubert's, "trout")

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