Subwoofers - Final Thoughts with Martin Logan ESL 13A


I’ve narrowed this down to 3 choices (I think) and was looking to see if anyone has had some experience with pairing these subs with ML ESLs? I can’t try and return because they are mostly secondhand purchases, so hoping to get it right the first time!

Force Cancelling subs have been highly recommended, so:

KEF KC92 (or KF92 older model) 2, 3 or possible 4 of these:

https://assets.kef.com/product-support/kc92-subwoofer/KC92_info_sheet_EN_V4_20240124.pdf

Martin Logan BalancedForced 210 - Maybe the best as they match up nicely, but I could probably only do one of these as they are HUGE. I have only one spot I could put one as far as the manual's recommendation goes. Martin Logan says these will cover 3000 sq. ft. My room is only 500 sq. ft. Two maybe overkill, but some say, "2 subs or no subs" Maybe I could put another addition on the house :-( 

https://www.martinlogan.com/en/product/balancedforce-210 - click on Specs/Lit

Lastly, The Swarm Subwoofer System - not sure how well this would work with my ESLs.

https://www.audiokinesis.com/the-swarm-subwoofer-system-1.html

Any advice would greatly be appreciated (as usual).

Thanks, and all the best of the season to you all!

 

 

 

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@elliottbnewcombjr thank you for your advice and the bass tracks. I’ll hunt them down on Tidal later today!

I am not much of a techie, so could you explain to me more or attach a link regarding what to look for in the way of a "Dedicated Crossover"? How does it work?

You also mention a stereo pair of subs, do you have a recommendation? Would the KEF KC92s work for this? And would they be on the inside or the outside on the FL/FR speakers?

I am no sub expert, others here are far more experienced and knowledgeable about subs and everything else.

You need to hear options in your space, with enough trial time to experiment and not rush to judgement, AND, you need return/refund options, that ain’t easy.

I just impart what I have experienced for others to consider/try. I suspect too many have never heard great imaging which begins with ____ frequencies and presents the location of Jazz Bass players excellently. A member here made me aware, and I keep repeating, the overtones of mono fundamentals become directional.

Location, front firing, no ports is all primarily related to achieving stereo bass imaging.

I’m 76, I’ve heard Quads in demo and nice systems, all the NYC showrooms and annual hifi shows, Martin Logans, Carver’s attempts, some others, but have not heard subs and panels together in a home system. I just don’t know anyone who has that, or anyone with a swarm setup.

My understanding of Swarms is to extend BELOW a system that already has ’enough’ stereo bass imaging. Some might add a swarm to my speakers in this space, I am happy when there is 'enough' of a foundation, more can turn to mud easily.

I never bought any variation of electrostatics because of the ’less than full’ foundation that you are working on and what audiophile 1 referred to. Likewise, I never got hooked on ribbon tweeters, or super-tweeters as some people do. Inheriting 4 way speakers, horns with 15" woofers at age 30 has limited my experimentation.

1. separate low bass signals prior to the amp, thus you need a separate preamp, or an amp or integrated with pre-out

2. pre-out to a crossover to separate low bass for

a. a self-powered sub or

b. stereo pair of subs, or

c. swarm of subs. (I never heard a swarm)

3. low bass to sub(s) only

4. everything else above low bass back to the amp. Now neither the amp or the primary FL and FR need to try and make low bass, the most power hungry need and source of distortion.

IOW, stop asking a 6-1/2" driver to be a woofer, let it do a better/cleaner job with frequencies it can produce cleanly, starting with upper bass.

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the crossover can be in the sub, designed by the sub’s maker, using line in, it’s crossover, line out to your amp.

IF you use speaker wires in/out of a sub, the primary amp is still trying to make low bass, which makes it harder to use a lower powered amp (the easiest way to try tubes). It does take the low bass job away from your primary FL and FR, so that’s something, but line is best.

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