Subwoofers - Final Thoughts with Martin Logan ESL 13A

I mentioned a dedicated crossover, a separate. It was more prevalent many years ago, self-powered subs with variable crossover frequencies and slopes have progressed as well as all forms of DSP which goes in/out of favoritism.

my friend, from my old dog era, might add a huge sub to his system (tweeter and pair of 6-1/2" drivers each side), and he will build his own crossover.

Perhaps members here can recommend a crossover separate that ’finally’ solved their quest.

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’Force Canceling’ has been around, and KEF and Martin Logan that you mentioned (their refined speakers, many models, affordable models lack low bass, they NEED to solve this) both have gone in that direction. Makes sense regarding the forces involved, and KEF has 4 preset location DSP settings. How to get some imaging out of them? I suggest you write them both, ask about adding subs without losing imaging, see what they have to say.

Is Force Cancelling More Important than Imaging? You would think 15" woofers, in cabinets with no bracing, would shake anything off their slanted tops, and yet, I let Donna put some things precious to her on top, they stay put.

I thought I might have to add some bracing when I had these made, but happily I haven’t. That ElectroVoice 15W Woofer’s monster magnet from 1958 weighs 37lbs. 3 Wheels (more weight per wheel, dual wheel caster's axels do not wobble) The 2x4 in the base lowers the front wheels 1-1/2", ’raises’; slants the face back, and aims the horn tweeter at seated ear height, while altering the angle of reflections from the floor and ceiling. Toe-In is easily changed for a single centered listener or two off-center listeners, also minimizing side wall reflections.

Toe-In Alternates, Stereo and Video

Did anyone notice Donna’s plants on a tray on top of my Reel to Reel? That tray moves to the top of the TT when I play tapes, the speakers move to wider positioning. I promised Donna the top of the equipment rack when we bought it, then I decided I needed to put some equipment on top, so I gave her two trays, and lots of trust.

Look at the top of the piano, and soon the little Christmas Tree: nothing touches anything else, felt feet, rubber buttons, 1/4" clearance, zero buzz kill.

2 Channel Imaging is Phantom, no driver is blocked, it’s simply the l/r balance that reaches your head

@elliottbnewcombjr What a wonderful story/advice, thank you (& Donna) for sharing, along with all the great photos (love those speaker cabinets). I will continue to persevere! 

That kef would be a good sub for your application. Pick up 2 of them and move them around behind your listening position.

The kefs and those bass modules built into the ML13A should make for good lil swarm, put you in a esctatic womb of bass from which everything else shines (when done right).

I used to have MLs once upon a time, during which the quality of subs were nowhere as close to what you can get these days.

"@elliottbnewcombjr    all the NYC showrooms and annual hifi shows, Martin Logans, Carver’s attempts, some others, but have not heard subs and panels together in a home system."

Could you describe, "Carver's attempts" at or with what? 

I just saw your Virtual System, those are awesome looking speakers in a beautiful space. I can imagine their sound, and suspect you are chasing something you don’t really need as audiophile1 implied, or said, not needed for him.

I mentioned my friend. He listens here, thinks he might need a sub. I agree he needed a sub in his prior space, however, we listen in his new smaller dedicated listening space, and I love his system, and always advise that he has enough bass, he could lose what is wonderful now.

His current space, I would first try a pair of reasonably sized stereo subs, pair of 8’s, 10’s? he is still thinking single monster driver. Years ago he built a table/sub with 18" woofer for the larger room, blew some amps, never got something he loved.

Send photo of your space to Martin Logan and KEF, that will help them help you.