"Cleaning" Vinyl Makes It Worse Not Better!

If Neil were to buy a Vacuum RCM and a US RCM and used his magic to invent a technique for them I am all ears. I would be very interested in that, but trying based on his description, with no practical experience, I hesitate to go down that rabbit hole.

All the procedures that are in the book Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records-3rd Edition - The Vinyl Press which include vacuum-RCM, UCM and combinations thereof have been validated with users across the globe.

As far as 200-proof ethanol this is what the book says: Pure Ethanol is drinking alcohol and aside from the inebriating effects is very safe. But most Ethanol purchased is denatured (made undrinkable) with methanol, and methanol and IPA can be very toxic. I make no statement that 200-proof cannot be purchased.

As far as Triton X100, this is what the book says: However, Dow™ Triton™ X-100 is categorized as a nonylphenol ethoxylate (NPE) and NPE chemical compounds have aquatic toxicity and are being phased-out (ref: EPA, Nonylphenol (NP) and Nonylphenol Ethoxylates (NPEs), 8/18/2010, Action Plan, RIN 2070-ZA09 (21)). Dow™ Triton™ X-100 was banned for commercial use/sale in the EU/UK on 4 January 2021 unless an exemption has been authorized. Medical use is authorized through 22 December 2023.

Otherwise, I developed and patented cleaners and precision cleaning processes for the Navy for about 20-years and assisted setting up those procedures across the globe with our allies. Those processes included ultrasonics anything from simple bench top to massive systems with 400-gallon tanks.

You can believe it or not, but I have lots of on-hands practical experience, and I have no need for the Edisonian technique of trial and error. If you understand the science, the mechanics and the chemistry, all you are doing at the end is tweaking the chemistry and process to match the user and equipment. Cleaning a record is not rocket science, but if it matters I do know how to clean rockets - I developed a spray cleaning procedure to clean a large aerospace contractor’s 30,000-gal liquid oxygen tank. But for those wed to trial and error, it’s a valid approach, just not very efficient.

The book discusses the “Rushton Paul” DIY ultrasonic cleaning formula Ultrasonic Cleaning, addressing each of the ingredients and what they mean. If you understood the chemistry (which the book addresses) of surfactants then you would understand why I recommend Tergitol 15-S-9; it’s essentially 4X more efficient which allows using less making rinsing easier.

As far as the manual process, I am open with stating that if you are cleaning more than about 6-records at a time, it’s not practical.

Otherwise, as the book states: All cleaning procedures specified herein are presented as only “a” way to clean a record. No claim is made there is only one way to approach the process. In the final analysis, the best cleaning process is the one that is best for you.

Take care,

Neil Antin

Right on @antinn 

Probably a friction stir welded tank my team built….ha. One million linear inches of weld without a defect… definitely NOT trial and error…

@tomic601, 

Probably a friction stir welded tank my team built….ha. One million linear inches of weld without a defect… definitely NOT trial and error…

That's impressive.  The tank was an open honeycomb design.  When they explained what they wanted to clean, I definitely took a deep breath.  But we able to clean the tank using only about 100-gallons of cleaner.  We used a high pressure multi-axis spray nozzle using Teflon diaphragm pumps to keep the fluid clean and as the fluid drained from the tank, a bank of 0.1-micron absolute filters kept the cleaning agent (that I had a Patent for) clean for continuous use with sampling of effluent to determine the process efficiency.  However, the irony is the company w/o my knowledge and w/o including me, filed for and got a patent for the cleaning process; but they never made any money on it.  I uncovered the Patent while researching something else.   Oh well, so much for ethical behavior. 

Take care and best wishes for the holidays,

Neil 

@antinn Sorry I offended you. I'm sure because you have written books, manuals and patents you're well known as an expert submarine tube cleaner. Now it is good that somebody has written something definitive, but not conclusive. That information was never in one place before.

I was merely stating, as I have before, my system works. I tried your Tergitol, it didn't work as well. That's why they added the second Tergitol, to make it the same as Triton X. As a matter of fact I have tried all of the chemicals that you recommend in my US tank and not one gave me the same results I get currently. I also used them manually before a vacuum, still not as good. And, I have zero damage and sonic loss.

The problem is removing tobacco smoke residue from the vinyl after it has set for 25-50+ years. My US system doesn't always get it the first time. I've found using the enzyme that comes with the Walker 4-step system will do a decent job if applied properly. I doubt yours does better.

You seem to be very sensitive about criticism.The fact is there are many ways, as you state, to clean records. Just look on YouTube, there are some crazy people out there..Everyone talks about your stuff as the be all end all for record cleaning. It's just a long tome with a lot of chemistry, that few people understand. I'm glad people are happy with it. I'm glad you're happy with it.

Happy Holidays

97% or my records were purchased new, and the other 3% were either near mint or mint. I was told a long time ago not to wet records as it will make it worse. If you never got it dirty and remove the dust before playing, you're good to go. In the past I have cleaned an older record or two of mine at stores (or on my brother in law's $4000 model that uses some kind of expensive fluid) considering buying a RCM and never was able to hear a difference after cleaning versus before. These were very old, but in excellent condition. Mainly MOFIs from the early 80's. 

I use the Audioquest and Hunt brushes. Audioquest is easier to use. I wore out an Ortofon one that looks to be the same as the Audioquest with a different handle.

If you buy a lot of used records from people who ate or smoked or mishandled records (or you don't know where they came from), I guess you need to clean them. 

Very rarely (it could be once in 6 months) I will clean the stylus with an old dishwasher stylus brush and a tiny bit of that fluid (if any).