Needing DAC Advice


My main, current system is a Schiit Urd through a Benchmark DAC3 B through a Schiit Freya+ (running in passive mode exclusively - I haven't even tried the tube output), to Pass Labs X150's to Martin Logan SL3's (and a couple of rythmik subs).

When I 'listen' to music, I listen to CD's or vinyl. I don't stream - too many places for signal compromise in the streaming chain for my tastes and, more importantly, I'm vehemently opposed to paying a provider who profits by paying artists virtually nothing for their content. When I can, I buy physical media directly from the artists I want to hear. 

A brief description of my pathway to here: the best-sounding system (for me) I've ever had was a modded Wadia 831 direct to a Pass Lab amp to ML's. (I'm a less is more adherent). I replaced the Wadia, as it was getting long in the tooth and I was worried about service, with an Oppo BDP105, then a modded 105D, again, directly driving the amps. Decent, but not the magic of the Wadia.

Which brings me to today - a transport and DAC. After much research, I went with the URD (because of the transport) through the Benchmark .I added the Freya+ in case I want to add vinyl to this system and the fact that the Freya is a 3-in-1 preamp. (I've got another, tube-based system for vinyl).

And here's the issue. The system is not a terribly musical-sounding set up. It 'sounds' very good: great detail, fast, big soundstage, blah, blah, blah...All those adjectives we regularly throw around. It's very 'there'! Sounds better than with the Oppo. But it is not...engaging? No soul?

I'm thinking it's the DAC. Maybe I'm just might not be a fan of Sabre or DS in general. Maybe I need try an R2R DAC. So, I started looking: Border Patrol, Denefripes, Mojo Audio, MHDT Orchid, HoloAudio, Lab 12, or even the Schiit Yggy.. Some of these add tubes which I'm not sure I want to do unless they can be bypassed (much as I love tubes, I'm not sure a DAC is the right place to use them.) Finally, before I go down the DAC rabbit hole, I will give the Freya tube output some serious listening, just in case tubes are the missing link. Otherwise, my questions are do you think that R2R is directionally correct and, if so, what suggestions/recommendations might you have? Thanks and I apologize for the length but I'm well aware that more detail I can provide upfront, the more useful your responses are likely to be.

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You can grab the Yggdrasil OG as the GS model for cheap. It has an exuberance to it that I find compelling. I think it is far more satisfying to my ears than others near it’s price range.

 

the Freya+ is a really excellent preamp with the right tubes. After much experimenting, I found the combo of Ken-Rad VT231’s with blackout glass in the gain stage with smooth sounding RCA 5692’s in the buffer stage to be the overall best combo. 
 

 

I just find it a little hard to believe that, with a preamp with three very different modes of operation, the op has not even tried the other two, esp. the tubes.  Press the button!  Also, the Border Patrol DAC, which has been mentioned several times, and can be had for much less than a grand, could be the another answer to your problem.

 

Currently demoing a T&A D200 DAC.  The most substantial difference I've ever heard in a DAC.  I use an RME in my studio setup, and have familiarity with several DACs although never compared directly to this one.  I HIGHLY recommend you demo one if you can afford it (has built in PRE but you can use your PRE if you prefer)

It sounds extremely musical and full while maintaining extreme precision in the imaging department and the soundstage has never sound wider.  Really didn't think I'd get this much out of a DAC but when you're paying over $7k, it better sound good!

I've heard many good things about the Denafrips Terminator+ and a few others mentioned.  Nice thing about DACs, they don't weigh a ton so return shipping isn't so bad, or you can buy used and just flip them.

There's a used T&A for $4800 on us audio mart rn.  If I was you, I'd grab one of those, a denafrips and maybe one or two other DACs to compare.  Any local hifi shops that will let you borrow gear?  Super invaluable in this process of gear selection!  Best of luck to you in your journey!

Sounds like a ladder DAC would get you where you would like to go.  At your price point you could swing a Denafrips or Holo Audio.  I would look at those first.  The Holo has a reputation of being a little more "tuby"  than the Denafrips with leans towards more revealing.  Good luck and cheers.

I will first attempt to define “soul” so we can calibrate expectations on SQ with each other.  To me “soul” or the ability to reproduce the emotion of the performer(s) and the composition on recorded music has a number of factors I will attempt to describe.  
1:   Lack of Artifacts:   Reproduction without artifacts, whether digital glare or vinyl grove noise, timing variations, etc. is critical.  Having a source component that reduces these artifacts is critical to “soul”.  When you audition equipment you are considering, listen to the timbre or acoustic instruments and to the background between notes.  The former shound sound correct to your ears.  The latter should sound as “black” as possible.  

2:  Image Density:   Personally, this is an attribute I consider very critical.  For music to have “soul” it is necessary for the images to have a dense, organic presence.  Some source equipment will image well with good sound stage width and depth, but the image density will be light.  When auditioning equipment use a well recorded vocal pop or jazz album and compare the image density.  For example, a Stockfish recording of Sara K or Katja Werka, Dream with Dean, Dire Straits Fade to Black, or Billie Eilish Not My Responsibility.

3:  Detail Retrieval:  Reproduction of “soul” requires the source component to be able to reproduce detail to the level that it reproduces second harmonic decays of instruments and hall ambiance.  This is critical for a source component to not sound “sterile”.  On any of the recordings mentioned in #2, you should be able to discern the engineered decays around the vocals.  For hall ambiance testing I use the Linn recording Applewood Road Loosing My Religion, a single miked live recording.   Pick the component that lets you hear best the variations in the three individual vocalists inflections and vibratos, and how the sound progresses out into the open air venue. On classical music, I use the 2L recordings Magnificat and Reflections where hall back wall and ambience is distinct.  Choose the source component that reproduces there effects best. 

3:  Micro and Macro Dynamics: Reproduction of “soul” requires the source component to reproduce micro and micro dynamic detail.  I do not speak about “slam” which is not critical and often can rob life if it is unnaturally intense.  I speak of the detailed dynamic inflections that are critical to reproduction of what others call PRaT.  Any of the test recordings I mentioned can be used to determine differences in dynamic “soul”.  

Regarding R2R ladder technology vs. “chip” technology, my experience indicates while there are some broad generalizations, it is not the conversation technology but rather the analog output technology that effects “soul”.  Some of the best and most expensive DACs use “chip” technology.  Some generalizations, IMHO, are ladder DACs (Holo May, DCS, Denafrips)  more laid back in their presentation from a staging perspective.  Timbre is accurate but laid back as well.   Images seem to also be lighter.  This is to the liking of many.  Chip or proprietary conversion designs (Mola Mola, Bricasti, AR) in general are more upfront in presentation from a staging perspective. Timbre is accurate but with more immediacy.  Imaging is more dense.  Recognize these are broad generalizations in my system to my ears. I do not prefer ladder DACs.  These generalizations were based on head to head auditions.  At the time I owned a Wyred4Sound 10th Anniversary DAC based on Sabre chip which excelled at reproduction of analogue “soul” and my opinion was backed up by many pro reviewers.  I purchased a Mola Mola Tambaqui just for the reason you are looking for.  It was better to my ears in lack of artifacts , image density, and dynamics, as well as timbre, giving music life.  It is not perfect.  It does not have the widest or deepest stage and while ambience reproduction is excellent directly around performers, it does not extend into the spaces between as well as others I auditioned.

My recommendation is to look for used offerings from Brisasti and Audio Research in you budget.  Above your budget look at a used Mola Mola or DCS Bartok.  The Bartok Appex sounds more organic (soul) than its predecessor.  Please audition because all of us have perceptions of what produces “soul”.   Hope my long winded  post at least stimulates a thought process that assist you in making a decision.