«Today’s Lyrics Are Pathetically Bad» Rick Beato

As a previously frequent poster on the Jazz For Aficionados thread would often point out, (paraphrase, “just because there is improvisation doesn’t mean it is Jazz”.

Jazz and Classical music sales, as a percentage of total music sales of all genres, have seldom broken the 2% mark for quite a few decades. This does not mean that there haven’t been up-ticks in sales and general interest as is the case currently, but still in the 1.5-2% range. Data also shows that when asked, about 10-20% of respondents say that they listen to “Jazz”. Why the asterisk?

Much of the music that many listeners listen to is not Jazz in the traditional sense. It is R&B, Rock, Funk, whatever, WITH ELEMENTS OF JAZZ. Particularly in the improvisation (when it is there) which is often heavily informed harmonically by Jazz.

@tyray , I very much appreciate your enthusiasm and optimism for Jazz and its future. I share your optimism inasmuch as I believe that there will always be a small minority (2% +/-) that will buy Jazz. However and sadly, I doubt this number will ever be substantially higher than this and certainly not as it was decades ago when Jazz was the Pop music of the day. I do think that there is somewhat more interest in Jazz among young (25-45) listeners today. SOMEWHAT more, but still a very small percentage of the total number of young listeners. Your own posts prove my point, I think. What you posted as examples of “Jazz” that young people listen to and even play, I wouldn’t call Jazz at all, but more as I described above… Funk/R&B with elements of Jazz.

Here is the lineup for the 2016 NOLA Jazz Fest, aerial view of which you posted as further proof. Might explain the huge crowd, but Jazz?! I did see Wayne Shorter and Preservation Hall Jazz Band among the others listed, but still…..

https://www.al.com/entertainment/2016/01/jazz_fest_2016_stevie_wonder_p.html

@mahgister 

Jazz is the only language becoming universal by virtue of his improvising syntax set of rules integrating all instruments and music styles slowly but surely ...

I'm confused. There are plenty of other genres that incorporate improvisation.  I don't know what you mean by  "improvising syntax set of rules integrating all instruments". Are you referring to simultaneous improvisation and drawing a line between it and the more common approach wherein individual  players play solos in turn? 

 

 

@bdp24 Blues Hammer is Blues Hammer and you just have to accept it as such.  I guess you can say they're sincere.  There's a story about Sonny Boy Williams when he used the Yardbirds as his backing band while touring England.  I don't have the exact quote, but he said something along the lines of "these boys want badly to play the blues -- and they do".

Despite what Sonny Boy said I love the Yardbirds doing "I'm A Man".

It may not really be blues, but it is inspired.  How can you not like Jeff Beck and his Fender Esquire?

Jazz is the only language becoming universal by virtue of his improvising syntax set of rules integrating all instruments and music styles slowly but surely ...

I’m confused. There are plenty of other genres that incorporate improvisation. I don’t know what you mean by "improvising syntax set of rules integrating all instruments". Are you referring to simultaneous improvisation and drawing a line between it and the more common approach wherein individual players play solos in turn?

 

For sure all music styles all over the world wrote their own syntax rules integrating if not potentially  all instruments as for jazz a few even many (India-Persia). It is well known to anybody who like world music as i am ...

But there is only one style which goes all around earth as an influences doing it at this scale and for such different cultures...

No other genres did it as jazz did...I like Fado for example but it stayed in Portuguese world mainly and his syntax let no trace in Japan as Jazz did..

“just because there is improvisation doesn’t mean it is Jazz”.

For sure all world music is based on improvisation...

I like chinese music and japan traditional music, none of it let his syntax rules and chord scales imprint all around the world...

Black traditional jazz begun to do it, it extended to all America, it reach Europe then it encompassed the world..

Is it pure jazz as in the golden age of jazz ? No..

Is it jazz at 100% like in the golden age now in all countries by those musicians calling themselves jazzmen?

No..

But it does not invalidate my point that jazz became if not the only at least the main universal matrix of influence for all improvised music around the world so much that the classical folk music of many countries begun to kept jazz as an inspiration for his own growing transforming essence ... As Hollywood film making influenced all the world cinema...

Is it a good thing ?

For the Hollywood influence on other countries cinema i dont think it was only a good influence, it is a mix...

For jazz it is almost all good influence...

There is something new and universal in improvised jazz language at his core...

As there is something universal exportable from this WRITTEN classical syntax european music ...So deep and original sophisticated are Indian and Persian music they were not exportable as Jazz or classical were...

Yoruba talking drums language inspired the greatest acoustician i read but it is not universally exportable as a useful integrating syntax even if music is a universal understood language, not as exportable and integrating form as jazz improvisation rules and classical written language were...Because in all cultures the perceived meanings depend more of a specific instrument depth core timbre/tone meanings as physical instrument . Being Yoruba drums or tabla or all Veena variations or all various lutes family or flutes variation in Turkisch sufi music etc..

 

 

Frogman here being a musician can certainly better than me speak about it...

 

 

@mahgister

You seem to be saying there exists a sort of Jazz "blueprint" that has been absorbed/integrated into many other genres, worldwide. You also seem to acknowledge that these other genres have, in turn, influenced Jazz.

What, so far as I can tell -- and I admit I’m not doing a very good job of understanding your meaning-- you haven’t spelled out in musical terms, is what it is at the core of Jazz that comprises its universal aspect.

Particular rhythms? Particular scales? Use of altered dominant 7th chords? "Vertical improvisation" in which a soloist "outlines" each chord change, as opposed to "horizontal" improvisation that tends to focus on developing longer themes or in the case of modal compositions, can employ a single scale over an entire progression? Something else?

Perhaps this is what you are hoping our resident Jazz expert @frogman will define?

Sorry if I’m being especially dense, here. Just trying to gain a clearer picture. ;o)