2. cables
  3. 192496-21

Belden 8402, 8412, and 8428

I am starting to have some time to play around lately so decided to try some cable comparisons and to make some more cables.  

I have been exclusively using Furutech u-P2.1 interconnects made with FP601/602 balanced connectors.  The cable is a 19awg fine stranded OCC copper in foamed PE with a copper braid shield.  There is really nothing to complain about.  However, I have previously made other cables including ICs using Western Electric wire, Duelund wire, and Belden 8402 a 20awg tinned copper cable that is said to impart a tonally rich, dense, midrange, at the slight expense of the high/low frequency extremes.  IME, all of the tinned copper does that to some extent.  Jeff Day wrote a few articles for Positive Feedback about it (about 5 years ago) after the guys from SPEC Corporation said the 8402 ICs and Western Electric 16awg speaker wire contributed to "Real Sound" or musicality. 

I have a few 8402 cables around here (Vampire or DH Labs XLR connectors) so I replaced one of the three sets of ICs I currently need with the 8402 and started making cables to replace the other two sets.  One set is now completed and spending some time on the cable cooker, after which it will go from my DAC to my volume control.  I have started another set to go from my SMc buffer to my amps, where I currently replaced the Furutech ICs with a set of DIY shielded Duelund 20 awg (tinned copper) ICs.  I am noticing a bit of a difference between these tinned copper ICs and my Furutech cables, with the tinned cables being maybe a little warmer and denser.

I have tried the Belden 8412, which is similar to the 8402, because I was curious how the Belden tinned copper wire would sound with PE insulation and a different jacket but the 8412 doesn't seem to have the same level of warmth and engagement as the 8402, or the Duelund wire. 

I have also ordered some Belden 8428, which is identical to the 8402 except that the signal wires are 18awg and the outer jacket is CPE instead of the CPSE on the 8402.  I like the 8402's CSPE jacket much better than the PVC on the 8412 cable, so I hope I don't dislike the CPE, which is likely to be stiffer than CPSE.  Do any of you have any experience with the Belden 8428?  Here is a thread discussing several of those Belden cables, including the 8428 near the end of the comments.

This may just be an opportunity to try something new because I am bored, but it is also sort of fun.  I may very well go back to using the Furutech u-P2.1, which is well-made, good sounding, and hard to beat without spending stupid money.

 

mitch2
mitch2 OP
4,330 posts
 

@climbereg - As a high level summary, my opinion is that all of the tinned copper Belden varieties displayed the rich midrange-centric "real sound" discussed by Jeff Day and Mr. Shirokazu Yazaki of SPEC Corporation in the Jeff Day blog here and here, with a 2024 follow-up here.  

After listening to the different Belden cables several times, I seem to like the original 20awg 8402 cables best overall but the larger 18awg 8428 cables were close and I could certainly live with them, especially between my preamp and amplifiers.  I did not get on with the 16awg 8408 at all.  The 8408 cables I received were improperly constructed and I returned them but the poor construction was related to reliability/durability and not how they sounded, so I was able to listen to them and IMO the sound was a little thick and dull in comparison to the others.  I was not particularly surprised as thicker is often better for speaker cables, but not for interconnects.

The Gotham 10561 GAC-2 UltraPro and 10601 GAC-2 AES/EBU were both clear and open sounding, and many would probably say they were more "accurate", compared to the tinned copper Belden's real sound, which tended to romanticize the midrange and fill out the bass.  Of the two Gotham cables, I preferred the 20awg UltraPro over the 22awg GAC-2, which is intended to be used as either a 110 ohm digital cable or as an analog cable.  I haven't tried it as a digital cable but maybe I will.

mitch2 OP
4,330 posts
 

This cable stuff is infuriating. Just when I think I have it sorted, I try something else (that I have tried before) and I like those better.  Today, it is back to the (stinky) Cardas Golden Reference. They do a lot things well and their only anomaly, from my perspective, is a bit of rounding off the edges and fullness in the bass.  I wouldn’t call it “warmth” but it does lead to a somewhat smoother, relaxing presentation, all without losing high frequencies, transients, and certainly tonal quality, which is outstanding. So, not exactly neutral but for sure enjoyable.

decooney
2,358 posts
 

@mitch2 They do a lot things well and their only anomaly, from my perspective, is a bit of rounding off the edges and fullness in the bass.  I wouldn’t call it “warmth” but it does lead to a somewhat smoother, relaxing presentation, all without losing high frequencies, transients, and certainly tonal quality, which is outstanding.

 

Yep, there it is. And a bit more of that with Clear Reflection.  I sold my Golden Reference, had two pairs, nice, and replaced them with Clear Ref after I compared the two back and forth over a few weeks. Your results may vary of course. 

Ponder this, and I wonder about this periodically any time I have some of my better Cardas cables in play. The same question occurs every single time I use them.  Let’s ask ourselves this too -  is it rounding the top end -or- allowing more of the midrange, mid bass, and lower bass to come through?  I still hear plenty of detail on top, its just smoother, less grain, with more weight and body to the presentation.

My custom Belden 8402 with nice connectors were neutral yes, however seemingly just a little less of everything, less smooth, more grain, notably less enjoyable to listen to for whatever reasons. After a few weeks, could not wait to swap back as well.  

mitch2 OP
4,330 posts
 

@decooney 

"is it rounding the top end -or- allowing more of the midrange, mid bass, and lower bass to come through?  I still hear plenty of detail on top, its just smoother, less grain, with more weight and body to the presentation."

Exactly. The rounding I hear is more in the midrange than at the top. Just a touch less sharp presentation, which is comparitively great on poor recordings and still pretty much just fine on everything else.

"My custom Belden 8402 with nice connectors were neutral yes, however seemingly just a little less of everything, less smooth, more grain, notably less enjoyable to listen to for whatever reasons."

I still like the 8402s and 8428s but in comparision to the CGR they are less smooth, although their saving grace is an added glow in the midrange and pretty good bass (but not quite as good as the Cardas).  As with the tinned copper speaker cables I have used, I still like the 8402s, and my DIY ICs using Duelund or WE wire, over a lot of other cables, but I keep coming back to the CGR.

decooney
2,358 posts
 

To @mitch2 good to know. I've only tried one pair of custom 8402s to compare with. I'd like to find sometime a few levels up form the Belsen's and Mogami cables to try for fun with other source components I use.  I do like testing different interconnects once in a while. If something else comes to mind by yourself or others, I might give it a go. I had someone from another forum asking to buy one pairs of my Cardas ICs and I'd like to replace them with something if I let them go. Enjoy your listening! 

More to discover