Speaker choice without need for deep bass


I am slowly moving away from large full size/full range speakers and migrate to smaller 2 way.

This effect is caused by me adding a great 18" subwoofer to the system, and later playing with the 'main' speakers (and main amplifier) relieved of the 50 Hz and below heavy lifting duties (low pass to sub with own dedicated amp, high pass to main amplifier/main speakers). 

So the big full range speakers were replaced with large bookshelf. Everything is fine, except that I have a HUGE (by volume and area) open main listening room.  But now the 2 way speaker with one 6" woofer just CANNOT 'move enough air' to listen to high level music without starting to distort. 

Therefore the next speaker design I want to try is a still small speaker but with two low/midrange drivers simply to be able to play at 'concert level' without distortion; but still no need for very low bass. 

Since still in the trial and error and validation phase of my 'concept', any small 2 (if needed 3) way candiate must also fit the VERY low price (used) criteria ($1,000 or less). 

What comes to mind? 

Note: I had also inquired about the KEF LS50 for example, but was told they (and similar speakers) would suffer from the 'just not enough square inches' issue required for very large rooms. 

 

kraftwerkturbo

@dynamiclinearity   Part of the problem is most sub woofers only have a low pass filter to roll them off where they mesh with the main speaker. If they also had a high pass for the main speaker to reduce the load on it, then the small main speaker could play much louder(and improve its performance and openness and clarity in the range above the high pass. 

The original poster’s remote controlled Velodyne Digital Drive-15 is equipped with both variable low and high pass filtering. All Velodyne DD series subwoofers offer the ability to act as a master Optimization control in conjunction with most any slave subwoofer. 

High pass filtering is not a panacea rather a method to be tried. Usually in the case of inadequate amplification power to the main speakers or if the main speakers provide a poor low frequency response at their lower limit. In any case high pass filtering is a trial and error option to be determined by the user. 

 

@ghdprentice If you have a budget system and want to get the best and coherent sound (matching a two way with and 18" subwoofer is going to be hard)...I’m just guessing this is not a $12K subwoofer.

Using the original posters remote controlled Velodyne Digital Drive-15 provides multiple adjustment parameters for matching the main speakers presentation as well as room optimization and equalization which are then saved to six memory presets. Velodyne DD series subwoofer’s position must first be determined by using the subwoofer crawl or their calibrated mic while noting the rooms strongest or best sound standing wave modes (as should any subwoofer) to position the subwoofer in.

The Velodyne DD Plus series uses a more in depth twenty minute auto program to make these adjustments which can easily be manually altered to taste then saved to memory within either models six EQ presets. 

Velodyne technology eliminated the "hard’ twenty-two years ago for either 10" $2,500. to 18" $5,800.

It seems that your current setup has some similarities to mine - midbass/tweeter powered by small tubes amps with an inline filter @ 60hz, then bi-amped with a solid state amp/low pass active crossover @ 60hz that powers 8" woofers and active subs.  I don’t have the need to play louder, but if I did I’d consider a speaker that’s similar to the single midbass/tweeter, but has an MTM configuration to retain the coherency of the 2-way, with the addition of more midbass output.

Unfortunately, I haven’t researched many modern examples, but I know they exist. (some in kit form)

@OP You are up against the laws of physics. You can make a small speaker play loud, but scale requires the ability to move a lot of air. So if you want concert level spl's and scale, a small two way just will not cut it. The closest to achieving that goal - at a price - that I've heard is the Borresen 01.

If you absolutely have to have a small form factor speaker, the Neumann 310 might work - its a studio monitor, a three way in a pretty compact cabinet. Like most studio monitors, it's active.

But really you would be better with a bigger three way floorstander. An 18 inch drive unit is not really designed to go up into the midbass, so you would be better off with a three way.

@yoyoyaya: "You are up against the laws of physics. You can make a small speaker play loud, but scale requires the ability to move a lot of air." Yes, that is the point of this post: what speaker (CAN be small because it does NOT HAVE TO MAKE 120 dB SPL AT 50 Hz !!! 

But needs more ’square inches’ to ’move air’ in the low/mid range; more than the (typcial) 6.5" low mid. HENCE the suggestion and search for a speaker with MORE low/mid drivers. I.e. more small/medium sized drivers, say 2x 6.5, 2x 8. 

But NOT 1x 12 (physics; too much mass for mid frequencies). 

Think of a multiway mega speaker without the 'build in' sub. Or a full range speaker with woofer(s) and cabinet reduced in size to only reach down to 50 Hz. Physics again dictates that such woofer(s) can be smaller, lighter and don't require such large volume/cabinets. Yet physics dictates for higher SPL, that those smaller/light low/mid rang drivers 'move enough air', ergo need lots of square inches, ergo multiple smaller low/mid. 

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/16f2hB8yvlbjacowhikOukwEae6BZp1R8/view?usp=sharing

@knotscott Yup, that is the idea. Mulitple small low/mid (for 'moving air' for higher spl), NO big woofers (no need for very low range), no big 'box'.

https://d2j6dbq0eux0bg.cloudfront.net/images/13908254/3055753434.jpg

What is out there, covering 50 and up (80 and up if needed) with lots of area for the low/mid?