Let's talk music, no genre boundaries


This is an offshoot of the jazz thread. I and others found that we could not talk about jazz without discussing other musical genres, as well as the philosophy of music. So, this is a thread in which people can suggest good music of all genres, and spout off your feelings about music itself.

 

audio-b-dog

@mahgister 

I will focus on an example to try to discuss "spiritual" music versus "genius" music. I don't think there will be much argument if I say that Mozart was a genius. Like a great jazz master, he was known to sit at the piano and riff for long periods, many bars of music. His music set up a musical premise, and he was able to take that premise and view it from all sides, right-side up and upsidedown, and always be able to keep his balance in order to resolve that premise, and it delighted his audiences.

Yet I have heard Mozart live and have been bored. It seems too glib. Too much intellect. When we get to Mozart's later music, however, it begins to change, with the culmination of his Requiem Mass, which I think is deeply spiritual. His later piano concertos also have a depth that is lacking in his earlier music. So, I think I can say that Mozart went through a spiritual transformation as he got closer to death. And I don't think it was strictly Christian. He began to feel the essence of music. Music can delight our minds or move us on a deeper emotional/spiritual level, or with the greatest masters like Bach it can do both. 

What do I mean by the essence of music? Why do humans enjoy music? Why did the ancients make music? Instruments have been found over 40,000 years old, and almost certainly older instruments made of wood were destroyed by time. Why would the ancients have taken the time and effort for music when food and shelter were far more important to our survival?

There was something inside the earliest humanity that could only have been expressed through music and other arts, and humanity was obsessed with expressing whatever that was. For so many reasons, especially humanity's early obsession with the sky and stars, I belive that humanity felt connected to the univese. And music was a call to all existence that we too belonged. And that to me is spirituality. 

Most music is ego bound. The musician wants to say, "Look at me! I exist!" And by their dazzling intelligence we recognize these masters. But other musicians who are more deeply spiritual I think are saying, "we--all of humanity--belong." We belong to the world in which we live and take sustenance, and we belong to the entire universe.

To me and perhaps you, the feeling of "we belong" is a more potent message than "look at my dazzling intelligence." It can be fun and envigorating to be dazzled by another human intelligence, but it is a much deeper and more satisfying connection to be wise enough to tap into the spiritual message, "We belong."

@stuartk 

I've also heard Kottke and liked him. Today I was playing Jorma Kaukonen. I enjoyed him. Is that the style of guitar that you play?

I forgot that "Poor Boy" was on "Beggar's Banquet." I thought of Jagger when I heard the song played on guitar. I am always amazed at what a good Blues singer he is. Of course, he's a great singer in general, IMHO.

@audio-b-dog 

I’ve never had the natural right hand coordination or the patience to learn that style. Back in high school, my original guitar mentor was an excellent fingerpicker. When I askef him how he developed it, he said his fingers "just seemed to know where to go". 

I’ve seen Jorma once solo and twice with Hot Tuna. I bought Quah on vinyl when it first came out and am still enjoying it. He did an album with some Bluegrass/Newgrass hotshots (don’t recall the title) you might like. "Blue Country Heart"?  

There was something inside the earliest humanity that could only have been expressed through music and other arts, and humanity was obsessed with expressing whatever that was. For so many reasons, especially humanity's early obsession with the sky and stars, I belive that humanity felt connected to the univese. And music was a call to all existence that we too belonged. And that to me is spirituality. 

I understand you. I consider many didgeridoo Australian music spiritual.... Pygmies chorus too ...

By spirituality i had not suggested only Christianity, but any inside deeply moving relation with God or Nature as sacred...

Your observation about Mozart going from genius to deeply spiritual is my observation too ..

But the relation with Nature which is sacred music is different from Hildegard Of Bingen  or Tallis  moving spirituality toward God. But the other day i was listening Russian female chorus performing pilgrim songs ( song suggesting walk and prayers) it was very near the pygmies songs ... The relation between men of the same tribe and walking and praying or singing in Nature is sacred  music... It is why i loved it...

 

i cannot listen only geniuses composers or musicians... I need also spiritually, sacred Christian, Buddhist or African or Indian devotion music...

Music without spirituality cannot fulfill all my musical needs so genius it is... 

Poetry is also bordeline to  the sacred or the spirit or the religious...

Think about Leonard Cohen singing   about Joan of Arc...

Or even Dylan singing "murder no foul" is a sacred  musical event in the US history...

Music without spirituality or poetry is not very interesting for me...

The 8th book of madrigals of Monteverdi is pure poetry...

Poetry gives us a minimum of spirituality...

 

 

@audio-b-dog - John Fahey - straight outa Takoma Park, MD. He can really take you on a journey with just one acoustic guitar. Brilliant records, brilliant live performances....