…there’s considerable information below 30Hz…
+1 @soix - it’s obvious once you hear it
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- 45 posts total
Maybe you haven’t heard a truly good system that delivers excellent imaging and soundstage without the aid of subwoofers. At audio shows, high-end systems are usually not demonstrated with subs. Dealers want to highlight the unique, inherent sound characteristics of their speakers and electronics—not the contribution of a subwoofer. On the rare occasion when a subwoofer is present in a demo room, the first thing I (and many other audiophiles) ask is, *“Is the sub on?”* If the answer is yes, the immediate request is usually to turn it off. Listen, I don’t wish to argue with you—especially on this subject. My personal conclusion, based on numerous trials with one or two subs from AR, SVS, and REL (brands known for musicality), is that none of these experiments have been satisfactory to my taste. Even when I carefully dialed in the position, crossover, phase, and volume, and set high/low-pass filters to leave headroom for amplification, EQ, and other fine adjustments, the results still fell short in terms of pace and texture. Larger woofers sitting in separate boxes, driven by separate amplifiers, are just extremely difficult to blend seamlessly compared to the integrated subwoofer designs you find in speakers from companies like GoldenEar. And yes, I did miss out on those sub-30Hz information, but I would rather have a coherent, natural presentation of the music than be distracted by non-integrated bass floating around my listening space and ruining my appetite.
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Your comment may work very well with -6dB sub-bass woofers as their dramatic mid 30hz roll off does not excite a rooms bass modes despite the main speakers often being located in a middle of the rooms extra low frequency draining null. -3dB subwoofers require very precise standing wave bass mode room positioning to enjoy the subwoofers delicate extra low frequency potential which is present on many recordings. Unfortunately there are no requirements to qualify using the word subwoofer. Fortunately manufacturers such as REL and Perlisten publish their low frequency limitations. Buyer beware. |
I have large speakers with 15" woofers that are spec'd to 30 hertz. When I measure my in-room response I have strong output to 20 hertz, the lower limit of my analyzer. I would still like to have subs but space and monetary concerns have kept me back. A long time ago my speakers were Dahlquist 30i's which were considered full range but I felt the low end was too polite and I picked up a 15" Velodyne sub just to see what a sub would do in my system. As expected, there was no increase in slam but the low end reached much lower, which I did like. I picked up a second sub mostly because I could tell where the sub was when listening and I wanted to even out the output. What I didn't expect was the change in soundstage on live recordings. I attended a lot of large venue rock shows back then and with the subs I had a lot more of a feeling of the venue space. I reasoned that in a large hall or stadium there was a whole lot of subliminal sound that I could now hear-- noise produced by the shuffling of thousands of feet, people talking and eating, and more stuff that was producing low frequency sound that I just hadn't been aware of in the recording until I added the subs. It added a whole new dimension in my room, and made those live shows much more realistic. The setup I have now plumbs the depths pretty well but not like those subs did, and I miss the environment they provided. But to get what I think I would like would require large subs that reach real low with high output, and a pair of such would be physically imposing and lots of $ so I get by with what I have.... Bill
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- 45 posts total