Do you think you need a subwoofer?

Dear Mark: +++++ " Without the arrogance of someone telling them they don't understand the subject! " +++++

arrogance is a word that I " don't know ", sorry if what I post/posted seems like " arrogance ".

+++++ " And PLEASE get off the "IM distortion thing"!!!I don't hear "it" and either would you!!!...." +++++

I'm sorry but that is the main subject on the thread. I know that you don't like it but.....for you can hear it you must to compare: with and with lower one!!!

+++++ " The thing "you" simply cannot understand is not everybody thinks in an actual textbook fashion " +++++

you know what, there is almost nothing of textbook fashion about the subject because almost no one and no where take in count when speak about subwoofer advantages.

I discovery ( for my self and I'm not saying that I discovery for all and I'm not saying that was the first one or that it is the only " true ". ) for my self ( testing one and again ) and not looking for, that the subs make a lot difference but for other things than the low/deep sound reproduction: suddenly I learn about!!!! and the experience is so " unique " that I put this thread to share about with all of us.

If you go to any single manufacturer subwoofer website you can't find almost nothing on the subject, every body talks about bass reproduction ( the very old textbook fashion that you support. ) but Vandersteen people that not only build subwoofers but " main speakers " : they understand perfectly the whole thread subject.

I know that it is not easy ( to any one including me ) to accept the " news " , almost all of us are a little " close " to a new ideas: Hey the earth is not flat but sphere/globe !!!!! blasphemy!! blasphemy! burn him!!!!, remember?. Well is only an example with out trying to compare at that importance level.

+++++ " AND,it does NOT mean you automatically have IM distortion issues " +++++

well, till today that kind of speaker distortions always be there, one of the best ways to improve the quality speaker performance is lowering those distortions!!! and that is what I'm saying nothing more.

Rgeards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

OK Raul,I give up!...Have a nice weekend.-:)

Raul, you said, "Bob, I whish I can to do it right now but I don't have the right tools to do it in the right way and for the other way"

Raul, you don't have any equipment to do this? Amazing! And you want to be my audio electronics engineer:)?
With apologies to Seinfeld...and you want to be my latex salesman?

And you said "no: seriously I'm right now with an in deep tests of our two tonearm prototypes and this stage on the tonearm design is very high time consuming, it is not only to compare each protoype against other tonearms but between those prototypes. This kind of work is not only between all those tonearms but with several differents cartridges!!!!!

And I am hoping you are not testing the tonearm on a system that you have no clue as to what it is doing. Because if you say the low bass is great with the new arm, how would you (and me) know? When you are not even reproducing low bass?

Also, I am not sure how you can say all of this about subwoofers when you don't even have any basic measurements.

Well, I do look forward to the day you can do this.

Bob

i can not speak for anyone else, but i removed my sub from my 2 channel set up some time ago. just this weekend i sold it with no plans to replace. the bass(on my B&W800d's), minus a sub, is deep, tight, great sounding and most importantly real sounding. not over stated or under valued just right, real sounding. my transition has been from 2 channel as a kid and young adult to 7.5 channels with dolby and dts. now returning to my roots, back to 2 channel, non-digetal, non-sub, anolog stereo system as a middle aged vinyl listener. back where i started(other then a much better system). where do i go from here? so if you listen to a 2 channel system with a pair of good full range speakers, toss the sub away. if your into movies and surround sound you can never have enough sub. thats the way i see it anyway.

Dear Bob: +++++ " you don't even have any basic measurements.... " +++++

how do you know that what you are hearing is right in a live music event if you don't have measurements?, well you use the best tools for measure: your experiences ears/brain, through them ( if you have the right know-how. ) you know if things go fine.

I'm not against those kind of measurements but according with your point maybe the Agon forums must dissapear because how can you believe what any one say/talk if they don't have measurements about?

Bob make your music life easy and enjoy it.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.