Denon DL 103 vs DL 103R

Grimace, some terminology might help to start with.

Preamps include a built in phono stage, otherwise it would be called a line stage.

Phono stages are separate units that can be paired with a line stage or added to a preamp line input. They perform at least two functions: RIAA compensation and some level of gain for the small level cartridge output signal. Many will provide only 35-40 dB or so gain, these will be designated MM (although they may work with high output MC cartridges). Some may provide two gain levels (low and high) and will be designated MM and MC. A very few could be high gain only and thus identified for MC.

Phono step-up devices contain only gain stages. They may be active circuits or transformer based. They do not include RIAA compensation so must be connected to a low gain phono stage when a low output cartridge (MC) is used.

If you want to try a Denon 103 or 103R, you have three choices. First would be to find a step up device (Denon introduced one about the same time as the original 103 and these can be found used for modest prices) to insert between your Rotel phono input and your tt. Second would be to get a phono stage designated for MC to insert between your Rotel line input and your tt. Third would be to replace your Rotel with a preamp that includes a MC input. I believe the 103 has 0.3 mV output and the 103R 0.4 mV if that guides you to the gain level needed.

I do not have experience with the cartridges you list so cannot comment on their differences. However, as you may have read, several hobbyists use one or the other of these Denon models, modified either for "nude" or wood bodied operation, and report they replaced cartridges costing more than the Sonata or Blackbird. Search the archives here and on Vinyl Asylum and draw your own conclusions.

Well, if I were going to go with the cartridge, in the process I would make sure that I had the appropriate phono-pre/stup-up for whatever cartridge I chose. It does seem like the step-up transformers are considerably less expensive that full phone stages. Thanks for the clarifications

In any event, based on the other comments, it sounds as if the 103 might be a bit warmer and more natural sounding, and the 103R might be a bit more detailed but clinical - or audiophile - sounding. Does that sound about right? I'd like to gain a little more defined soundstage depth.

Grimace
I will say this,and others can correct me.The 103 is VERY musical,propulsive,weighty,and just plain fun to listen to.I've not heard the "R" but I cannot Imagine it being clinical like say a Clearaudio etc,,

FYI the original 103 was designed and manufactured in 1962,to a set of standards,broadcast industry etc,
The "R" vesion was introduced in 1991 to sort of improve on
those standards which could be termed more Hi-Fidelity.
not analytical I'm sure it still retains that house sound.
hope this clears things up.

braab

I wouldn't worry about the 103R being clinical per se; just a little more in that direction from the 103.

Just to clarify things a bit: output on the 103 is .3 mV while the 103R is lower at .25 mV so ideal gain from an active phono stage is about 60 db with the 103 and 62 with the 103R. The 103 should probably be loaded around 100 ohms while the 103R should be loaded lower, probably in the 30-50 ohm range so this may be a consideration when looking at phono stages and/or transformers.

Paste this into your browser for a review here comparing both:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?ranlg&1034089946&read&3&4&

While the standard 103 has its fans, research I did before buying a 103R indicated that the majority of those with experience with both cartridges preferred the R and felt it to be worth the extra money. It is anything but hi-fi-ish or analytical. In any event, I'm sure they are both very good cartridges, but remember that they deserve a very good phono stage as well which is something many people don't consider because of the low price of the Denons. The general concensus at this time is that if you stick one of Uwe's wood bodies on the Denons they are capable of embarassing much more expensive and exotic cartridges. The aluminum bodied Zu 103 at $399 seems to be another interesting alternative.