cartridge output level


Hi all,
This is Marco from Italy, I have a question about how a cart output level relates to volume knob position.

Let me explain: my VdH colibri is rated .45mv@5.7cm/sec, it goes into the mc phono stage of an hovland hp100 tube preamp, no complaints for the sound but the preamp volume knob is often in the 3 o'clock position, and anything below 12 is not enough.

Now this preamp phono stage is quiet enough up to 1 o'clock, above that the tube noise is audible, not to a level to ruin the listening pleasure, but is there.

I would like to be able to play with the volume knob between 10 and 2, the question is, if i could get a new cart, how do I know the correct output level to achieve that goal? I wouldn't want to end up not being able to go beyond 9 o'clock either.

Also, is there a difference in output level at 5.7cm/sec as per VdH spec compared to 5cm/sec of other manufacturers?

I know the simple answer is to try other carts in my setup, but unfortunately that is not an option here.

Any advice for a suitable cart is very much appreciated, I listen to jazz 60%, classical 30%, pop/rock 10%, I like lively dynamic sound with huge soundstage but not dry or too bright.

Thank you all,
Marco
128x128cptaz
I agree with your statement that your CD output of 2 volts will lead to about 10 volts output from your preamp using the linestage. But 3 volts output from your preamp should still be enough. The only thing I can think of is that the taper on your volume control is such that the gain is low until 12:00 or so and increases rapidly after that, but still, it should not be encountering much noise in your preamp unless the tubes themselves are noisy. I have never tried the 75 dB gain position in my Aesthetix Rhea, but even with 62 dB I had to buy some low-noise tubes from Upscale Audio to minimize tube rush because the phono stage uses tubes for all of the gain. One time a tube was going bad and causing big thumps through my speakers and subwoofer. Going to 0.65 mV will help, so that is a solution, but there are a lot of solid-state phono preamps that go above 60 dB. Again, I think Hovland should be able to help you.
What I'm getting from all the above is that you SHOULD have plenty of gain/volume at 12 o'clock. There's an error somewhere. Call Hovland and make sure your Colibri is actually not a VERY low output version.
Rlawry: Why on earth would you need an outboard phono when yours is spec'd at 63dB -- and so being can hit the overload ceiling (0,9v) with your existing cartridge???

Also remember that most amps input specs at 0,78-under 2v. 10 volts will overload the amp -- you don't need it.

Hovland are nice people, really, do give them a call:) Cheers
Since I am also using the Colibri, I would like to share my experience here. First, my system:

1, VDH Colibri (copper version @ 0.65mv., platinum version @ 0.2mv)
2, Herron phono stage (66db gain @ 47K ohm, but I am loading it down to 1000 and 200 ohm for the copper and platinum Colibri respectively, and I am not sure what the gains are with these loadings).
3, Herron linestage (14db gain)
4, Accuphase electronics crossover at 500hz (0db gain)
5, Sonic Frontier Power 2 for mid/treble, and Power 3 for bass (relatively low gain @ about 21 and 23db respectively)
6, Modified Apogee Duetta Sig. (I estimate it at about 85 db/w)

With the 0.65mv copper Colibri, I need to turn the volume to slightly over 12 o’clock, and with the 0.2mv platinum Colibri, it needs to be at 2:30 to 3 o’clock. Even though I don’t really have problem with noise, I wonder if I can get better dynamics with a higher gain phono stage, such as the Rhea.
Thekong: I have never set my Rhea phono stage at 75 dB gain but I guess I should try it and report how it does. Again, since the Rhea uses tubes for all the gain, the choice of tubes is extremely important. The stock tubes worked fine but didn't sound nearly as good as some NOS Mullard 12AX7's that I bought from Upscale. 0.2 mV cartridge output and 85 dB speaker sensitivity is a tough application since it requires so much gain but it seems as yours works. I still am scratching my head as to why Cptaz is having such a large gain issue with his rig since he has 0.45 mV output and more sensitive speakers with similar phono and preamp gain as yours. Gregm: I am not sure what you are asking, but I am using a Rhea with 62 dB of gain going into my CAT linestage preamp which has 26 dB. My Essence power amp also has 26 dB of gain and my Wilson WP7's have 92 dB voltage sensitivity. I have also tried the 56 dB of gain from the Rhea but I like the sonics of the 62 dB setting a little better. BTW, I have tried various cartridge input load settings with my Rhea and the differences are only sonics, not gain. I like my AQ7000Fe5 cartridge run wide open at 47K ohms.