vintage turntables?

Musicgioni, it kinda depends on the Technics doesn't it? This seems to be at the crux of what you were saying. The 1200 is an OK machine, nothing special. If you want to hear a better one, you need an SP-10 MkII or MkIII.

The 1200 is easy to find, the SP-10 is not, and when you find one be prepared to spend real money.

Most vintage machines are easily surpassed by newer 'tables today. But there are a few older machines that have a following, and mostly because they keep up with newer machines (although usually they need refurbishment and then an update, which in some cases is extensive).

These machines, as far as I can tell are the Technics SP-10s, the Garrard 301, the Lenco idler-drive, the Empire 208 and not a whole lot else (although I might have missed one...). These machines have several features in common: heavy platter, robust precision bearing, robust drive system: overall good speed stability. Most older machines suffer acoustic resonance problems, which are usually a good portion of the update applied. Often you wind up with a machine that would cost as much as a new one too :)

Atmasphere,

There is truth in what you say as well as Musicgioni. Vintage equipment should be upgraded and serviced in order to have a correct evaluation with it's modern counterpart.

For the most part new does trounce old , but not always and this varies from category to category and how do we categorize vintage?

In the case of a TT , the Technics was avg 30 yrs ago and still avg today hence the results, academic really. Take any of the top turners from past era's, Micro Sieki, Garrard, Thorens, SME, Linn et al and I'm positive they will stand up to the best of today ..

Crap many TT companies consider acrylic the only way to go when making a TT..My Connoisseur TT of 37 yrs ago was all acrylic ..:)

Japanese receivers and amplfiers were considered avg sonically 30 yrs ago, nothing hi-end and nothing will change that today. There allure is not sonics IMO, but the beauty of a bygone era, where each brand had it's own face and features were galore, nothing like the bland one knob stuff being sold today ...

Regards,

Musicgioni,

What decent 60's vintage tables had you listened to? I don't see any restored vintage tube amps. Is it all 70's stuff that you're touting as your vintage experience? I am sure the Comet does hold its own against a myriad of 70's tables, but that's hardly saying that you have enough to make any claims about vintage tables.

Your speakers are great and i am sure that they out class upper-mid-fi speakers like the Fortes, it does not seem like a fair comparison?

Weseixas, I would agree that *most* Technics machines are rather ordinary. The SP-10s are an exception. They have a lot of excellent engineering that went into their servo design, of the likes that you don't see these days. As a result, they represent the pinnacle of direct-drive machines, and if refurbished and properly set up, challenge any modern 'table.

This is why these machines command some rather amazing prices on the used market, particularly the SP-10 Mk3.

Hello Atmasphere,

Have to admit to hearing the SP-10 on one occasion many moons ago, so i cannot comment on it's recently acquired status but do agree that both the Technics and the idler wheel drive Lenco's do have a strong following, my comments were directed at the more commonly known Technics stuff.

Funny how both tables were never thought of being anything special during there day ..