vintage turntables?

Atmasphere,

There is truth in what you say as well as Musicgioni. Vintage equipment should be upgraded and serviced in order to have a correct evaluation with it's modern counterpart.

For the most part new does trounce old , but not always and this varies from category to category and how do we categorize vintage?

In the case of a TT , the Technics was avg 30 yrs ago and still avg today hence the results, academic really. Take any of the top turners from past era's, Micro Sieki, Garrard, Thorens, SME, Linn et al and I'm positive they will stand up to the best of today ..

Crap many TT companies consider acrylic the only way to go when making a TT..My Connoisseur TT of 37 yrs ago was all acrylic ..:)

Japanese receivers and amplfiers were considered avg sonically 30 yrs ago, nothing hi-end and nothing will change that today. There allure is not sonics IMO, but the beauty of a bygone era, where each brand had it's own face and features were galore, nothing like the bland one knob stuff being sold today ...

Regards,

Musicgioni,

What decent 60's vintage tables had you listened to? I don't see any restored vintage tube amps. Is it all 70's stuff that you're touting as your vintage experience? I am sure the Comet does hold its own against a myriad of 70's tables, but that's hardly saying that you have enough to make any claims about vintage tables.

Your speakers are great and i am sure that they out class upper-mid-fi speakers like the Fortes, it does not seem like a fair comparison?

Weseixas, I would agree that *most* Technics machines are rather ordinary. The SP-10s are an exception. They have a lot of excellent engineering that went into their servo design, of the likes that you don't see these days. As a result, they represent the pinnacle of direct-drive machines, and if refurbished and properly set up, challenge any modern 'table.

This is why these machines command some rather amazing prices on the used market, particularly the SP-10 Mk3.

Hello Atmasphere,

Have to admit to hearing the SP-10 on one occasion many moons ago, so i cannot comment on it's recently acquired status but do agree that both the Technics and the idler wheel drive Lenco's do have a strong following, my comments were directed at the more commonly known Technics stuff.

Funny how both tables were never thought of being anything special during there day ..

Musicgioni, I agree with Atmasphere. You compare the Cosmos to some middle of the road vintage direct-drive turntables and then make a sweeping generalization about all vintage turntables. Likewise, you compare vintage receivers to your very high quality modern system that consists of separates, and again you make a sweeping generalization in favor of the latter. My point is that there are MANY vintage turntables that, like your Cosmos, also blow away the vintage turntables you listened to. (Try a re-plinthed Lenco or Garrard or a restored SP10 Mk2 or Mk3, or a restored Exclusive P3 or Kenwood L07D or many top end models of Denon, Sony, Yamaha, etc., in proper plinths). As regards the electronics, etc, the art of solid state audio design is always a slave to the available technology of the individual parts. So, because these days we have faster, better, transistors than ever before, better caps and resistors, too, it is not surprising that today's solid state products are likely to be superior. I say "likely" because in many cases the build quality of the older stuff will mitigate the negative effects of out-dated parts. As for tube gear, your generalization just does not hold up.

The other thing you don't mention is the condition of the products you auditioned. Anything more than 20 years old probably needs to have all its electrolytic caps replaced, for example. Old direct-drive tt's need to have that done, especially. In many cases, outdated transistors in some of this gear can be replaced with modern and functionally superior equivalents, which makes a huge difference in performance.