vintage turntables?

Musicgioni,

What decent 60's vintage tables had you listened to? I don't see any restored vintage tube amps. Is it all 70's stuff that you're touting as your vintage experience? I am sure the Comet does hold its own against a myriad of 70's tables, but that's hardly saying that you have enough to make any claims about vintage tables.

Your speakers are great and i am sure that they out class upper-mid-fi speakers like the Fortes, it does not seem like a fair comparison?

Weseixas, I would agree that *most* Technics machines are rather ordinary. The SP-10s are an exception. They have a lot of excellent engineering that went into their servo design, of the likes that you don't see these days. As a result, they represent the pinnacle of direct-drive machines, and if refurbished and properly set up, challenge any modern 'table.

This is why these machines command some rather amazing prices on the used market, particularly the SP-10 Mk3.

Hello Atmasphere,

Have to admit to hearing the SP-10 on one occasion many moons ago, so i cannot comment on it's recently acquired status but do agree that both the Technics and the idler wheel drive Lenco's do have a strong following, my comments were directed at the more commonly known Technics stuff.

Funny how both tables were never thought of being anything special during there day ..

Musicgioni, I agree with Atmasphere. You compare the Cosmos to some middle of the road vintage direct-drive turntables and then make a sweeping generalization about all vintage turntables. Likewise, you compare vintage receivers to your very high quality modern system that consists of separates, and again you make a sweeping generalization in favor of the latter. My point is that there are MANY vintage turntables that, like your Cosmos, also blow away the vintage turntables you listened to. (Try a re-plinthed Lenco or Garrard or a restored SP10 Mk2 or Mk3, or a restored Exclusive P3 or Kenwood L07D or many top end models of Denon, Sony, Yamaha, etc., in proper plinths). As regards the electronics, etc, the art of solid state audio design is always a slave to the available technology of the individual parts. So, because these days we have faster, better, transistors than ever before, better caps and resistors, too, it is not surprising that today's solid state products are likely to be superior. I say "likely" because in many cases the build quality of the older stuff will mitigate the negative effects of out-dated parts. As for tube gear, your generalization just does not hold up.

The other thing you don't mention is the condition of the products you auditioned. Anything more than 20 years old probably needs to have all its electrolytic caps replaced, for example. Old direct-drive tt's need to have that done, especially. In many cases, outdated transistors in some of this gear can be replaced with modern and functionally superior equivalents, which makes a huge difference in performance.

Weseixas, I suppose that depends on who to talk to. I had an SL1100, the very first direct-drive machine, and when the SP-10 came out, I wanted one a lot but could not afford it.

Maybe three years later (1982??) a friend of mine bought an SP-10 and it was immediately apparent that this was a great machine, and as I recall by that time it was widely viewed as one of the top tables at that time, although it did not have as much cache because it was not American-made.