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lps sound bad

I am finally listening to lps after going perhaps 20 years without, due to a recent (about 3 months) investment into a vinyl rig. I'm absolutely bummed that perhaps 30 to 40% of my collection really isn't worth playing due to sonic considerations.

I have an aproximate 2,000 lp collection, nearly all are new album, record show, or garage sale purchases dating from the early 70's thru the mid 80's. These are mostly all very well preserved, with minimal wear, dust pops, scratches etc. My problem is not with the shape or cleanliness of the records (they have been hand cleaned in accordance with 'expert' advice, then cleaned again in a VPI 16.5). Nor are they mistracked, none of that inner groove distortion.

It is also not a setup issue, cartridge setup is absolutely correct, and every other parameter of setup, from the wall shelves/isolation to power cords and ICs has had careful attention.

My issue is in the mastering and/or pressing of the lps. This 30 to 40% have issues, mostly with small soundstaging and/or lack of frequency extension, especially in the bass. They simply sound small scale and lightweight, like mid-fi to me. The other 60 to 70% of my collection sound relatively huge in comparison, large, airy soundstaging, transparent, dynamic, especially the micro dynamics.

Now, the vast majority of the 30 to 40% that sound small scale are what I believe to be, original pressings of 70's rock music. The rest, mostly 50's and 60's recordings from a huge variety of genres, sound wonderful, mostly way better than my digital.

I suspect what I'm hearing is excessive compression due to poor mastering and/or pressing. At this point I'm not sure whether the main culprit is mastering or pressings. As I previously mentioned, most of these recordings were purchased in the early 70's to mid 80's, thus, I believe they are original pressings, which leaves mastering as the culprit. On the other hand, I have digital remasters of a number of these rock recording, a small number sound larger scale than their lp counterparts, which leads me to suspect pressings in some cases.

From this, I extrapolate that mastering is the culprit in most cases. Furthermore, I believe the bad sounding lps sound bad because of solid state recording studio equipment. My 50's and 60's recordings nearly all sound big, large scale, some may not have the greatest frequency extension, especially in the highs, but they all are tonally and dimensionally full, some luciously so, in the midrange. These recordings come from the heyday of tube equipment, both in the recording studio and home audio.

I should add, I'm not trying to make a case of solid state recording studios being the sole culprit here, as a small percentage of my 70's rock recordings sound large scale and satisfying. Rather I think it is solid state done on the cheap, and with bad ears on the part of the producers and engineers that is at fault. The late 60's and early 70's had more than it's fair share of crappy solid state, and most producers and engineers didn't know the first thing about quality sound (as remains the case).

Still, it seems the 50's and 60's producers and engineers could do less harm to the sound, the tube recording equipment always had the relatively voluptuous midrange. And perhaps the tube home audio of the day let them hear at least a semblance of quality, so they tried to replicate that sound in the studio.

As things stand, I'm somewhat disappointed in vinyl at this point. I was hoping these 70's rock recordings would sound much better than their cd counterparts (remastered or not). 30 to 40% of my collection is basically throw away at this point, I don't care to go through all the hassles inherent in the playing of records that sound only as good or worse than their digital counterparts.

I'm now getting the itch to buy lps new, I'm just wondering if the newly minted rock lps of classic rock are worth buying. It seems the digital remasters I have are only marginally better, in most cases, over older digital pressings. I suspect the same will hold true for vinyl, the new remasters will only sound marginally better than my original pressings.

At this point, I'm basically writing off classic rock recordings on lp. While I know classic rock can sound good on lp, the small number of exceptions I've experienced leave me highly skeptical. Future purchases will be mostly limited to recordings (of all genres) prior to the 70's. Future classic rock purchases will be mostly in digital form, for any lp purchases I will have to rely on thumbs up by reviewers I trust. Contemporary recordings are problematic as well, sound quality is all over the place in the digital recording studios, it seems to be a crapshoot, have to rely on reviewers here as well.

Vinyl setup:
VPI Scoutmaster
JMW 10.5i tonearm
SDS
Dynavector 20XL
Cayin Phono-One
sns
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,784 posts
 
Humorem, naturally I would not make any comment about ELP's first album and the qualities of the pressings if I did not have them! I have had around 10 copies of the Cotillian press over the years, none of them could hold a candle to the Pink Island. I bought the Cotillian when it came out (it was one of the first records I bought).

So either there is a reference issue or there is a **vast** variability in the pressings, although I have found all the Cotillians to be quite consistent, as I have with the Pink Islands. The fact of the matter is that if you want detail, impact and quiet surfaces the Pink Island is the best place to find it in this case; IOW this is not myth, it is simply experience.
sharpnine
14 posts
 
When I got back into vinyl a few years ago I did not have too big a collection left from my younger years--just the stuff that was favorites or I thought difficult to replace with CDs. However, on a good turntable I was unhappy with probably half of them. I just dumped them--and didn't let it worry me. In fact it made me not feel so bad about getting rid of all the ones I did previously, knowing that probably so many of them weren't worth keeping either. As your system gets better the better LPs sound better and better but the weaker ones just sound more obviously weak.
I find that hunting down and acquiring excellent vinyl is one of the great pleasures of this hobby, and getting rid of lesser quality stuff improves the quality of your whole collection, reduces space requirements, and gives you a bunch of new titles to search for. Just think of it as the fun and challenge of collecting vinyl.
xiekitchen
821 posts
 
I'm gonna jump back in:
Jethro Tull Stand Up: I've had U.S. Chysalis later pressing, it sucked. Then found U.S. early Reprise pressing, sounded great. Then bought on ebay for alot of bucks, original 1st UK pressing Island pink eye. Honestly, a little different (bass a little softer, rounder, mids have a more forward sound) but can't say it's better than the early U.S. Reprise.
ELP:
can't talk too much about 1st one, but Trilogy: U.S. pressings suck, too much distortion/overload, bad pressing. UK pressing much better but yes a little softer presentation but bigger soundstage and lusher presence in mids. Bought perhaps 10 yrs. ago, MFSL pressing which is WAY BETTER. Why all this MFSL trashing? Trilogy on MFSL is the bomb.
Brain Salad: decades ago had a early or 1st U.S. pressing which was very good... wore it out... bought another copy around 1980 or so and it SUCKED. Bought a Jap. copy which was better, but hash-y harshness to some extent, "clean" sound with smaller soundstage. Then found some unknown audiolabel reissue with 45 single, now this one sounds really good, but is quieter, mastered at a lower level or something.. you have to crank it up.
King Crimson: went thru several copies of Islands: U.S., 1/2 speed EG editions (way too tipped up treble!) finally found a 1st edition Island label UK pressing... this one is best in many ways but I find the treble too soft and recessed.
Back to Brain Salad: does anyone have a 1st issue UK version ? I cannot find one.
audiofeil
4,011 posts
 
I have an original, US not UK, first pressing of Brain Salad Surgery and it is spectacular. Trilogy is the best ELP recording regarding US first pressings. Tarkus is also very good.

Regarding MFSL trashing, some are quite good (Crime of the Century, Fly Like an Eagle) but most really suck (Sticky Fingers, Aja, Sgt. Pepper, Pictures at an Exhibition, etc).
sns OP
3,193 posts
 
I played my Cotillion pressing of the first ELP album Thursday night. Sound was nicely transparent/detailed, but the bass drums on Tank didn't have the impact it should have, this should be foundation shaking bass. Don't know if its my pressing or vinyl setup. At this point, suspect my setup, still tweaking and have a ways to go. I just have a feeling this recording has a lot more to give.
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