Killing sibilance distortion - VPI & Jubilee

Goatwuss'
y.s.:
>>> Maybe the headshell on the VPI arm doesn't extend very far? <<<
Must be the case then, not that I like it any much better though :-) sorry. But if that's it, I'll store that in my database.

Next:
"Setting zenith with the MINT" --- that is Azimuth what I see, and it is pretty out in the picture. (Zenith is turning that cart like a dial on a penny)
It looks like the head-shell is closer to the cart on the right?, AND your head-shell/arm is tilted also (bitch to set with that arm, I've seen it). Next thing you play a record, (with or without AS) and it's skew again.
Your call, I say.

Next:
>>>It looks to me like the zenith angle looks good... aligning to the cantilever of course<<<
I can see squat, in fact what I can see, that cantilever is off-set to the right. I mentioned that very thing earlier on, of course the picture may look different than real life...
Take that cart OUT, and look at it straight from the top, maybe make a picture, and be SURE that cantilever is straight down the middle, please. (seen it all before, that's why it's imperative to have the information)

>>> Loading at 100ohms for Jubilee <<<
That's 100% with GCPH, can't do better then that.
(I had both your cart and your phono-pre, plus I had your problem - but not with your VPI rig)

Best,
A.

Goatwuss,

Great information. As others said, you get A+ for diagnostic thorough-osity.

The zenith photo does appear to have been taken from an off angle relative to the null point, so we can't really assess your zenith angle. As Axel said it looks like azimuth is way off, but that could be due to the angle of the photo.

With all your efforts I really doubt alignment is the problem. The track you're having problems with is challenging and all gear has its limits.

I would not expect a Shelter 901 to play inner groove sibilants better than a Jubilee. From my own experience and also from theory I'd expect it to be worse.

IGD was the reason I stopped using my 901. It wouldn't play tough inner grooves clearly on 3 of the 4 tonearms I tried. The exception was a Schroeder Reference, but I'd hardly recommend buying a $6K tonearm just to get a Shelter to behave.

The Jubilee has a better stylus profile. On my TriPlanar it was no worse on inner grooves than any other part of the LP, though as I said before, it never performed at a level that encouraged me to feed it difficult stuff like that Allison Kraus track.

Try the Benz, just for kicks.

Regarding equipment and its limits...

Last night we played Mahler 8, "Symphony of a Thousand", on an excellent German Teldec pressing. Eight operatic soloists, two full choruses, boys choir, big pipe organ and large orchestra - all going full tilt in tutti or fugal counterpoint for four sides. That's more challenging than fifty over-miked Allison Krauss tracks.

My ZYX UNIverse may be the clearest, least congested cartridge on the planet. It plays that AK track without blinking, but it only just kept the Mahler under control. For the first time since I got my Mint the sound occasionally reminded me I was listening to a phono cartridge. It was by no means bad. Darn good actually. But it lacked the last bit of effortless clarity that I'm used to.

I redid my entire rig last weekend and adjusted VTA and VTF specifically for this recording, so it wasn't setup.

We played a lot of music last night and everything else sounded ravishing (a Bach cantata on authentic instruments, Ella singing Cole Porter, a Beethoven Piano Concerto that literally brought me to tears, then the Mahler, then Louis Armstrong's 'St. James Infirmary' and 'I ain't got nobody' on the Classic 45rpm reissue as a nightcap). The Mahler just pushed my system close to its limits. It would have pushed a 901 or Jubilee well past theirs.

Also, VTF can't be optimized by using a scale. It can only be optimized by using your ears.

I doubt that's the cause of your problem, but you should experiment to learn how your cartridge behaves with varying amounts of downforce. Whatever you learn will change as the cartridge ages and perhaps even with the weather. The most a scale can do is get you in the ballpark.

Are you getting sibilance on a "real" lp??? Most test records are designed to make ALL arm/cartridge combinations distort. I would use a test record to minimize and even out left-right sibilance, but wouldn't worry about it further unless I were experience trouble with real music.

Axel, Doug - Thanks again for your time and thoughts.

Axel and I discussed his comments over email, and it looks like I have a little bit of tweaking to do. From the picture, azimuth does look to be a little bit off... but I think the reason for this is more than likely the angle of the photo. I do own a camera, but I am no photographer! In person, the zenith angle actually does look better than it's reflected in the picture... Just for kicks, I'll plan on re-aligning and re-testing, but based on past efforts, I don't think it will get me anywhere with regards to this issue.

Which brings me to your comments Doug - Really, my #1 priority for vinyl playback at this time, even above any audiophile goals like tonality, coherence, etc, is to get rid of the sibilance and IGD. So aside from setup, which we seem to be getting fairly close to exhausting (but I still plan on testing with the VPI jig, and also the Benz cart), I am wondering if you know of any surefire path to nail sibilance, IGD and tracking without spending a massive amount of money. I am flexible with my gear, and though it's never fun to take a loss, I am pretty detached in the sense that I just need to get this taken care of.

Obviously changing a cart is the easiest, so first off I would wonder other than the Universe, if you know of any carts that will totally kill this one thing. It's OK if it's not perfect in every other way. Granted, I bought both the Benz and the Jubilee based on some recommendations for carts that would be better trackers and matches for the Jmw9sig than the 901...

If a cart change alone isn't a surefire path to beating this, I am wondering what the next step would be. Even if I have to spend some money (might have to wait a little while) I am committed to getting there, as most of my music is on vinyl. I think I'm rambling a bit, but that's where I'm at right now.

Dcstep - This is a "real" lp, it's an Alison Kraus record ( :

Actually, I get sibilance distortion in the inner grooves on pretty much every record that I have with vocals, some worse than others, but it's usually there. I only bought this MFSL Kraus record because it's one that people are familiar with, and making a recording of that track is a good, objective way to show exactly what I'm hearing.