Killing sibilance distortion - VPI & Jubilee


Hello,

Along with what others have posted in the recent past, I also have a long running case of nasty distortion on sibilants with my vinyl playback. It is worse in the inner grooves.

To build on some other recent threads about this topic, I ordered a MFSL that is supposed to be a good test for mistracking. I have made a recording clip of my playback playing some of the last track on Side 2.

I have the recording on this link:

Playback Recording

If you take a look at that, we can all be on the same page with what exactly is going on.

The setup is a VPI Scoutmaster table, JMW9 sig arm, Ortofon Jubilee cartridge. The table is leveled on a Salamander Archetype rack. VTA is set with the arm parallel. VTF is set to 2.4g. Alignment is setup with the MINT arc protractor, 10x magnification. The VPI mechanical Anti-Skate is being used, with the lighter rubber washers. Azimuth is level by means of the "VPI straw trick" (a straw in a groove on the headshell).

Is there anyone that can point me in the right direction to fix that sibilance distortion you're hearing on the recording?

I've tried quite a few things, including different cartridges, and VTF, VTA and antiskate settings, but the sibilance is always there.

Here are some photos of my setup:

Cartridge Closeup

Aligning with the MINT

Thanks for reading
by Goatwuss
goatwuss
Goatwuss,

Great information. As others said, you get A+ for diagnostic thorough-osity.

The zenith photo does appear to have been taken from an off angle relative to the null point, so we can't really assess your zenith angle. As Axel said it looks like azimuth is way off, but that could be due to the angle of the photo.

With all your efforts I really doubt alignment is the problem. The track you're having problems with is challenging and all gear has its limits.

I would not expect a Shelter 901 to play inner groove sibilants better than a Jubilee. From my own experience and also from theory I'd expect it to be worse.

IGD was the reason I stopped using my 901. It wouldn't play tough inner grooves clearly on 3 of the 4 tonearms I tried. The exception was a Schroeder Reference, but I'd hardly recommend buying a $6K tonearm just to get a Shelter to behave.

The Jubilee has a better stylus profile. On my TriPlanar it was no worse on inner grooves than any other part of the LP, though as I said before, it never performed at a level that encouraged me to feed it difficult stuff like that Allison Kraus track.

Try the Benz, just for kicks.

Regarding equipment and its limits...

Last night we played Mahler 8, "Symphony of a Thousand", on an excellent German Teldec pressing. Eight operatic soloists, two full choruses, boys choir, big pipe organ and large orchestra - all going full tilt in tutti or fugal counterpoint for four sides. That's more challenging than fifty over-miked Allison Krauss tracks.

My ZYX UNIverse may be the clearest, least congested cartridge on the planet. It plays that AK track without blinking, but it only just kept the Mahler under control. For the first time since I got my Mint the sound occasionally reminded me I was listening to a phono cartridge. It was by no means bad. Darn good actually. But it lacked the last bit of effortless clarity that I'm used to.

I redid my entire rig last weekend and adjusted VTA and VTF specifically for this recording, so it wasn't setup.

We played a lot of music last night and everything else sounded ravishing (a Bach cantata on authentic instruments, Ella singing Cole Porter, a Beethoven Piano Concerto that literally brought me to tears, then the Mahler, then Louis Armstrong's 'St. James Infirmary' and 'I ain't got nobody' on the Classic 45rpm reissue as a nightcap). The Mahler just pushed my system close to its limits. It would have pushed a 901 or Jubilee well past theirs.
Also, VTF can't be optimized by using a scale. It can only be optimized by using your ears.

I doubt that's the cause of your problem, but you should experiment to learn how your cartridge behaves with varying amounts of downforce. Whatever you learn will change as the cartridge ages and perhaps even with the weather. The most a scale can do is get you in the ballpark.
Are you getting sibilance on a "real" lp??? Most test records are designed to make ALL arm/cartridge combinations distort. I would use a test record to minimize and even out left-right sibilance, but wouldn't worry about it further unless I were experience trouble with real music.
Axel, Doug - Thanks again for your time and thoughts.

Axel and I discussed his comments over email, and it looks like I have a little bit of tweaking to do. From the picture, azimuth does look to be a little bit off... but I think the reason for this is more than likely the angle of the photo. I do own a camera, but I am no photographer! In person, the zenith angle actually does look better than it's reflected in the picture... Just for kicks, I'll plan on re-aligning and re-testing, but based on past efforts, I don't think it will get me anywhere with regards to this issue.

Which brings me to your comments Doug - Really, my #1 priority for vinyl playback at this time, even above any audiophile goals like tonality, coherence, etc, is to get rid of the sibilance and IGD. So aside from setup, which we seem to be getting fairly close to exhausting (but I still plan on testing with the VPI jig, and also the Benz cart), I am wondering if you know of any surefire path to nail sibilance, IGD and tracking without spending a massive amount of money. I am flexible with my gear, and though it's never fun to take a loss, I am pretty detached in the sense that I just need to get this taken care of.

Obviously changing a cart is the easiest, so first off I would wonder other than the Universe, if you know of any carts that will totally kill this one thing. It's OK if it's not perfect in every other way. Granted, I bought both the Benz and the Jubilee based on some recommendations for carts that would be better trackers and matches for the Jmw9sig than the 901...

If a cart change alone isn't a surefire path to beating this, I am wondering what the next step would be. Even if I have to spend some money (might have to wait a little while) I am committed to getting there, as most of my music is on vinyl. I think I'm rambling a bit, but that's where I'm at right now.

Dcstep - This is a "real" lp, it's an Alison Kraus record ( :

Actually, I get sibilance distortion in the inner grooves on pretty much every record that I have with vocals, some worse than others, but it's usually there. I only bought this MFSL Kraus record because it's one that people are familiar with, and making a recording of that track is a good, objective way to show exactly what I'm hearing.
Goatwuss
one curious thing to note, and it might tie in with that cart question also.

The best this far I got this track playing was with carts that had a much higher compliance i.e. softer ones, and quoted as around 23cu. The Jubilee as we know is 16cu.

In a similar vain, I had issues with the 'La Boheme' SXL when my Dorian came back from a J.Allaerts re-tip. He decided to make it softer also ~ 24cu as I recall, and it improved (but never perfect, note Doug’s mention :-) It got an FGS (Fritz Gyger Special) on boron...

Don't know if that ZYX is of higher cu the 16, if yes, it might help together of course with the stylus profile.

I had a thread a short while ago on "stylus profiles and related distortion" it was pretty much ignored, as there seems this idea: THIS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH IT... with everyone piling into the last microns of pivot-to-spindle distance until Herr Schroeder added some sanity.
Now I here that Doug found his arm can pass the IGD trick.
Must be Doug's alignment skill, yes :-)

Well, we learn as we go.
Best,
Axel