AntiSkate-crooked Cantilever correlation?

Very true.

Skating force is unlikely to affect the suspension at all, for the reasons I described. OTOH, ANTI-skating force is not necessarily small. Some tonearms allow you to apply quite a lot (though rarely more than ~10% of VTF).

Anti-skating and VTF can both effect the suspension, but I agree VTF necessarily has the greater effect. Cartridge suspensions collapse downward faster and and farther than they collapse sideward.

Of course some cartridges quote different compliance figures for vertical vs. lateral forces, so they may have different elastomers for the different planes. Another fly in the ointment!

Very interesting ideas about anti-skate Dougdeacon. I put anti-skate dial close to the same number as the tracking force. I then use my ear to dial it in, using the principle, "if the sound is better on the inside tracks, you have too much anti-skate". When I get real close to the correct amount of anti-skate, I throw out all rules. I then ask myself if I am more excited about listening or less, if I move the anti-skate incrementally. Sometimes, I sleep on it. The anti-skate is now set. Now, this does not apply to uni-pivots or cartridges that suggest less anti-skate. Markd51, have you had an experience where the cantilever has been canted over time?

Mmakshak,

You actually read all that?! Just to be clear, all that high-falutin' crap was just a longwinded "not likely" to Markd51's question regarding cantilever/suspension canting. Everyday playing is much simpler than that, thank goodness!

Like you I adjust AS (and VTF, VTA, and azimuth) by ear. No scale or dial can tell us what setting will produce the best performance from any particular arm/cartridge combo. Numbers get us in the ballpark or help us return to a setting we know was good, but that's about all.

The maker of a tonearm has no idea what cartridge might be used on it, so the numbers on the AS dial are pretty arbitrary. My tonearm doesn't even have such numbers and I'd ignore them if it did. IME starting where you do typically applies excessive AS, but you gotta start somewhere. I prefer to start at zero and add as much AS as the cartridge needs, but to each his own. It's where you end up that really matters.

I confess I don't understand your statement that "if the sound is better on the inside tracks, you have too much anti-skate". Where did you get that idea?

Thank you gentlemen for all your responses. To answer Mmakshak's question, no, I have no cantilever canting on any of my Cartridges, and of course would like keeping them that way, hence my interest, and my questions.

while I'm not a newcomer to vinyl, I would say I'm a relative newcomer to learning some of the technicalities of extracting uncompromising vinyl reproduction, and while I understand the media, or the hardware can never be a totally perfect proposition, I reckon we here, all strive to extract the very best our rigs-vinyl have to offer.

For years, I relied upon test records, years ago, it was the Shure, with its torture tracks, and commonly used the blank tracks at various points upon the record to at least get some "basis" for which I felt this was "better than nothing".

But, over recent years, I have come to understand that this is not correct? At least not for final fine tuning of AS, but perhaps is at least a good starting point?

I assume there are many forces at work as the tiny Stylus tries to do its job, and if one would notice breakup of test tones-torture tracks in one channel first, I would then again assume, that the Stylus is not seeing equal pressure load on one of the groove walls. Is this correct?

Are torture test tracks still a sufficient/sensible way to more quickly attain correct AS? Or do I need to take it even further? TIA, Mark

Doug, Thanks for your insightfull explanation. I really thought: no way one can fully understand this AS enigma without PhD in physics as well as in math. My experience is
in correspondance with your explanation. The most carts with 'cantilever deviation' were with the 'inside-direction' (not necessaryly my carts.sic). And then to think how proud I was with my 'achievement' with my (then)
Fr-64,Ortofon MC 30s combo: 90 micron without any 'buzz' from the R.channel. As,I think,Lasker stated:'there are obvious limits to the human mind but human stupidity is without boundarys'.

Regards,