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Sibilance issues with vinyl rig

howdy
I've recently gotten into vinyl, investing quite heavily, and coming away unimpressed and frustrated.
the problem is sibilance...I find some albums almost unbearable, and if not unbearable, not terribly pleasant to listen to. On other albums, there is a sibilant 'cast' - even surface noise, and tick and pops have a hollow, pitched up characteristic to them that is unlike I've experienced listening to other systems. When people say 'vinyl sounds way better than cd's', I wonder what the hell they're talking about, or what it is that I'm doing wrong.
I should list out my system quickly just in case there's some familiarity within the membership and perhaps a quick fix, and also to see where I'm at in this hobby:
Rega Saturn cd player
Modwright swl9.0se pre amp
Cary audio slm 70 mono blocks
Totem model 1's
totem thunder sub
running springs haley power conditioning
harmonic tech cabling throughout
vinyl rig:
vpi scoutmaster with jmw-9 signature tonearm and single flywheel motor upgrade and vpi sds
benz micro ace low output mc cartridge
sim audio lp5.3 phono stage
harmonic tech magic cables (used) between turntable and phono stage, and between the phono stage and Modwright pre (new)...I've noted this as the magic cables are newer than what's in the rest of the system.
The lp5.3 phono stage is used, I'm the third owner
The cartridge was new....the turntable, cartridge and magic cables to the phono stage have about 100-150 hours on them now.
I'm quite happy with the cd playback...the saturn was the best under $5000 player I'd auditioned, save for one, and that is in the company of krell, copland, meridian, etc...so in general the system as a whole performs rather well...and no sibilance issues with cd playback.
I set up the turntable myself, following Michael Fremer's dvd in which he demo'd the setup of a scoutmaster. I do have a nice digital stylus gauge, and have purchased the soundsmith counterintuitive to assist with the difficulty of setting the tracking force/azimuth on this tonearm. I can't say I'm an expert at setup, but in listening there are no other issues (left/right balance, tracking erors, etc), so I figure I'm 90% there.
I've tried every resistive setting on the lp5.3. I've tried lowering the output, but I already need to set the volume at 4-5 out of 10 to get where the volume is equal to what 3 out of 10 provides using cd playback, and it didn't solve my problem anyway (thought the sibilance might be caused overloading the rest of the signal path..btw, the benz has an output of .4mv). I fiddled with vta, and found little if any difference. I meticulously clean my records (most of which are brand new) before playing, put them in rice paper sleeves, and use the requisite record and stylus cleaning brushes...in other words, I'm meticulous and thorough. I listen to a huge variety of music, and have extreme familiarity with some (admittedly not all) of the albums - I know how they should sound...ironically, it's the ones I'm familiar with that bother me the most. I do assume the new components should be broken in by now, and either way, there has been little or no change since the initial setting up.
I've invested a chunk of money time and effort, and expected the vinyl rig to sound at least as good as the cd, but I'm disappointed....would really appreciate any input...help!
josephwol
buconero117
2,311 posts
 
You are in danger. Best to give up all vinyl, it will forever not measure up to digital. Just enjoy the music and give the gear a rest.
markd51
763 posts
 
Yes, I'm seeing the trends as well in regards to VPI Tonearms. Both the noted issues of sibilance, or mistracking, and also the proponents, and naysayers of the brand.

I'm sorry I've never owned a JMW Tonearm to be of highly specific help, but if this was another brand of arm, forumites here would be making the standard recommendations, and that's about all I can do, is apply those for possible answers.

Many have been surprised by the fact that their Stylus, which was thought to be clean, really wasn't. A dry Stylus Brush does little good to properly remove baked on residues. With that said, and if you are not using a product like the White Mr Clean Magic Eraser, I suggest you search the archives here.

Others will suggest your accuracy of VTA, VTF, Azimuth.

One suspect cause I believe may be hampering many VPI owners, is the accuracy of their Cartidge Alignment Tools?
That, and the seeming confusion-debate of what the proper distances of overhang should be for these Arms? And with that said, what tools will be the best choice?

If, there can be misinterpretation with any said Alignment Tools,(Protractors)then I believe no matter ehat else one may try to alleviate sonic problems, their success may not be optimally achieved.

Many here seem to have had very good results with the MintLP Best Protractor, and I have this tool myself.

There is virtually no margin for misinterpretation with this tool. Once it is used properly, you will have no doubt that this tool has improved your sound. I've yet to read about any user who has said it hadn't.

Without knowing your alignment is spot on accurate, the paths to achieving great sound will be a guessing game that may never be resolved.

Other VPI owners will hopefully chime in, that have switched from the VPI Jig to the MintLP Tractor, and can further comment about their findings, and the differences in overhang, and zenith angle results.

When I acquired my own MintLP Tractor, I found I was off by about .5mm by other methods, and some will tell you this is a quite considerable distance to be off, if you are wishing to extract the best sonics from a Cartridge.

The MintLP Tractors are Arm specific, meaning Yip in Hong Kong makes it for your Table-Arm combo. Hope this helps. Mark
Ag insider logo xs@2x
islandmandan
1,260 posts
 
Markd51 is right on about the MintLP. I suspect no matter how close you think your cartridge-arm setup is, it's most likely not close enough to get the lowest signal-to-noise possible with the JMW 9 arm. David Garrettson I think, may be on to something too. I just got a catalogue from Mapleshade Audio, and they have developed a brass headshell weight and addtional brass counterweight to provide more mass at the headshell. While not VPI specific, it might be a good solution, but a nickel would be a whole lot cheaper.

If Dave says this is a good solution, you can take it to the bank as far as I'm concerned. I'll try it myself. Thanks Dave!

Best of luck,
Dan
tzh21y
1,654 posts
 
I have a Scout JMW 9 Tonearm combo with a Benz Cartridge. Sadly I must say that I have heard records that tracked perfectly all the way through, not on my Scout JMW 9.

One thing I have learned from talking to other analog lovers and listening for a long time is my Benz needs the VTA setting on the JMW 9 to be very low, almost as low as it will go on my tonearm. Assuming your cartridge is aligned properly and isolated, try to get the top of the cartridge parallel with the record surface. That shoud be your starting point, not what VPI tells you about the tonearm being parallel to the record.

You may want to try MM or MI cartridges as they for the most part track a little better. I have never tried one and it might sound great, you may be suprised. Make sure that the compliance is right. The effective mass of the JMW 9 is under 8 grams. Probably a medium to higher compliance MM cart will be somewhat better. I do feel your pain. You can get it to track better, but it will most likely never be perfect, especially during crescendos.

Benz cartridges need a medium to high mass arm to sound their best as it says right in the specs. The JMW 9 is neither. That was my mistake.

I have been at it for a long time. I have the Mint.

For many, the Scout JMW 9 may be all they ever need, but if you are like me, in time you will ultimately want more performance.

The thing I don't like is if I don't want a VPI JMW 9, I feel like I am stuck. That is not a good thing. I would love to put a Fidelity Research, Hadcock, Moerch, or whatever on this table. There is just not enough room without getting into big time mods and I am not sure it is worth the effort in the end.
arch2
308 posts
 
To follow up on Markd51's comments I use a MintLP Tractor with my Scout, JMW9 arm and Dynavector 20X L cartridge. It's a very exacting procedure and takes some time to do it right but I have not had any of the issues the OP is having. I use the twisted tonearm cable anti skate recommended by VPI plus the VTF is on the high side of the Dyn recommendation (2.2 gram). I did compare the alignment between the Mint Tractor and the VPI jig and the overhang is a couple of millimeters longer with the Mint Tractor. Zenith was close between the two but again slightly different. I can't say that alignment is the issue the OP is having but after using the devise correctly you become pretty confident that the system is dead on. But more importantly it sounds great.

Based on what you are hearing I find it hard to believe that there isn't something amiss with your system or set up, like alignment for example versus just not having the "ear" for analog. I've been digital most of my life and when I go from vinyl back to digital I can't help but get the feeling that digital (though more detailed in my system) is made up of a bunch of pieces and parts versus the flow of analog on my rather modest table. Good luck.
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