TT-101
Here is an image of the innards of a TT-101
INNARDS
and here is one of the TT-81
TT-81
As you can see.....the TT-101 is considerable more complex.
Imagine trying to work on that if something goes wrong? :-)
Here is a posting from a couple of years ago from AudioKarma I think which explains the problems we, who own such exotica face:-
"I had an interesting conversation today with Tommy Cheuk, the owner of "Top Class Audio" here in Hong Kong. Some of you may know of him and his shop via the website; Tommy has been enjoying and selling hi-fi gear for many years, and has some of the finest stuff (especially turntables), to be found anywhere, period. If you are into turntables (tonearms, carts, step-up transformers and phono pres, etc...) his shop is a must-see mini-museum where all the nice rarities are for sale, albeit at often painful prices.
Because he often gets very rare stuff from Japan that I don't see elsewhere, I went by his shop to ask about accessories for my GT-2000. He commented that ever since a "club" had formed in Japan centered around this model, the prices of the accessories had been climbing steeply, with some Japanese even buying back and re-importing the TTs and accessories that made it elsewhere (like Hong Kong)! He said this --and the escalating prices-- was why you almost never saw them any more locally. [His words re-confirmed my feeling that I really did get a lucky bargain with mine! ] He said it was even worse for Hong Kong (and American) buyers now, due to the currency valuations. So these days he doesn't have any stock of GT-2000 stuff. Not good news for me, but I can live with it. I know I'll still get the things I want, from Japan, although some won't exactly be cheap.
While we were talking, another man came in looking for a Technics SP-10 or SP-12 Mk II or MK III (I forget which), and Tommy said that he no longer carried them! This surprised me, because I remember seeing several pass through his shop within the last year or two. To my surprise, he said he had stopped carrying them recently because the critical motor- and speed-control ICs were no longer available [i.e., they have become --HORRORS!-- "unobtanium"], so once these parts break down, the TTs cannot be repaired. He explained that this was increasingly true for several of the best models of direct drive TTs, so he been forced to stop dealing in, for example, the TOTL Victor (JVC) TT-801 and TT-101 models. He (Tommy) had personally had a 101 as his main player at home for over ten years, and then bought a beat-up "spare" for parts, but in the end had to throw both of them out, when the pitch/speed control ICs went bad. [He still has one in his shop, with three tonearms I drooled over, pictured here:http://www.topclassaudio.com/web/eng...ls.jsp?gid=907 ]
I asked if he could have found chips elsewhere, and he said no doubt there were still a few here and there around the world, but finding them was another story. Since these models were only sold domestically in Japan, there were never large stocks of parts overseas, and all the usual channels (authorized dealers and repair outlets) in Japan were 100% out-of-stock.
"Ditto" for several of the Denon direct-drive models.
What is worse, is that many of these chips are 96-prong (or something like that) devices with rows of connectors on all four sides, that require special "factory" desoldering tools to remove or install. In some cases, they were installed by these machines directly into surface-mount type boards, and the customary repair was to replace the entire board, because there is no way to safely remove the chip without damaging it. There are no more replacement boards for a good number of the models, and those that are left, are dwindling in number.
All the other components, such as resistors, capacitors, etc... are replaceable, and the TTs can be maintained for a long time, UNTIL either of those two critical IC chips go. When that happens, if there are still replacement chip stocks available, AND you can find someone (usually only the factory or their agents) who have the correct gear or replace it, OR if you can find a whole replacement circuit board (sometimes a necessity, sometimes just an option), then you can keep listening to your TT. But if the chips are gone, you have a beautiful doorstop...
He suggested that anyone owning any of the better 80s-era Japanese direct drives faces this problem sooner or later, and for some of the nicest models (those I mentioned above), the clock has essentially run out already, but on the good side, he said the best solution he knows of is to PLAY THEM OFTEN! Playing them frequently offers the best possibility to prolong their lives, especially in a humid climate like Hong Kong's.
Well, at least there was ONE good note (pun intended) in this rather depressing conversation!
We discussed the Rockport Sirius III that is sitting, unused and unplugged, in the corner of another showroom in the district. The people there say they know there is electronic circuitry inside which they don't want to "wear out", which is why they don't play it. I've suggested to them that playing it might be better than not playing it, but they seem not to believe it. Tommy chuckled and suggested that perhaps the thing had died BEFORE they unplugged it, and this is their face-saving excuse for not using it? I've heard that suggested by one other person before, so perhaps there is some truth to it(?).
I'm thinking now about strategies for trying to get and stockpile replacement parts/chips (if they are the replaceable kind)/boards for my DD TTs. For the GT-2000, I suppose buying a spare TT would be one approach, albeit an expensive one. I also have to find out what kind of chips are in the PL-L1, and if they can be found. Hopefully the same kind as in the later PL-L1000, as I'm sure if they were exclusive to the PL-L1, then they are basically unobtanium, by now. Even finding Pl-L1000 parts won't be too easy. And then there is the Sansui SR-929... And the Pioneer PL-C590. Hhhmmm, I suddenly feel a wee bit less confident in my collection of direct drive TTs!
Hope this didn't rain on the parades of any DD owners here. With careful maintenance (replace those aging caps and check the other stuff every decade or so, folks!), they may yet last for many more years, even decades. But once either of those critical two chips goes, cross your fingers that they are still available, or else you just became the owner of a very fancy doorstop!
Oh, and in case you think he had some commercial reason for saying all this, NO, he praises their absolute speed stability and great sound (as I said, he used them himself for years at home) and has sold the better Japanese DD tables alongside the better belt drives (incidentally, he had a couple of magnificent Micro Seiki thread drives there, one 1500 with gunmetal platter, another limited edition with gold-gilt platter) alongside other TOTL tables, including some DDs. No, I believe he was telling the sad truth. A truth I suppose we all know back in the deep recesses of the mind, but hate to have stated to our faces. The fact that he threw away two of Victor's all-time-best turntables because he was sure there was NO way to repair them any more... well, it just sickens me!
I think I'll start taking his advice, and playing MORE vinyl, to make sure all my DD TTs get enough of a workout to live longer! Maybe it will take my mind off of this train of thought.
Of course, I would probably last longer, too, with a little more exercise... "
Now if you own a vintage belt-drive or idler.......you face no such problems.
They are both readily fixed with parts available and no such reliance on electronics.
But great Direct Drives offer a speed accuracy and coherence which other drives can only dream of......so I guess we just live for the moment.....enjoy them whilst we can.......and hope for the best?
After all.......those that still work have lasted over 30 years now. What's another 30 for Japanese technology? :-)
Here is an image of the innards of a TT-101
INNARDS
and here is one of the TT-81
TT-81
As you can see.....the TT-101 is considerable more complex.
Imagine trying to work on that if something goes wrong? :-)
Here is a posting from a couple of years ago from AudioKarma I think which explains the problems we, who own such exotica face:-
"I had an interesting conversation today with Tommy Cheuk, the owner of "Top Class Audio" here in Hong Kong. Some of you may know of him and his shop via the website; Tommy has been enjoying and selling hi-fi gear for many years, and has some of the finest stuff (especially turntables), to be found anywhere, period. If you are into turntables (tonearms, carts, step-up transformers and phono pres, etc...) his shop is a must-see mini-museum where all the nice rarities are for sale, albeit at often painful prices.
Because he often gets very rare stuff from Japan that I don't see elsewhere, I went by his shop to ask about accessories for my GT-2000. He commented that ever since a "club" had formed in Japan centered around this model, the prices of the accessories had been climbing steeply, with some Japanese even buying back and re-importing the TTs and accessories that made it elsewhere (like Hong Kong)! He said this --and the escalating prices-- was why you almost never saw them any more locally. [His words re-confirmed my feeling that I really did get a lucky bargain with mine! ] He said it was even worse for Hong Kong (and American) buyers now, due to the currency valuations. So these days he doesn't have any stock of GT-2000 stuff. Not good news for me, but I can live with it. I know I'll still get the things I want, from Japan, although some won't exactly be cheap.
While we were talking, another man came in looking for a Technics SP-10 or SP-12 Mk II or MK III (I forget which), and Tommy said that he no longer carried them! This surprised me, because I remember seeing several pass through his shop within the last year or two. To my surprise, he said he had stopped carrying them recently because the critical motor- and speed-control ICs were no longer available [i.e., they have become --HORRORS!-- "unobtanium"], so once these parts break down, the TTs cannot be repaired. He explained that this was increasingly true for several of the best models of direct drive TTs, so he been forced to stop dealing in, for example, the TOTL Victor (JVC) TT-801 and TT-101 models. He (Tommy) had personally had a 101 as his main player at home for over ten years, and then bought a beat-up "spare" for parts, but in the end had to throw both of them out, when the pitch/speed control ICs went bad. [He still has one in his shop, with three tonearms I drooled over, pictured here:http://www.topclassaudio.com/web/eng...ls.jsp?gid=907 ]
I asked if he could have found chips elsewhere, and he said no doubt there were still a few here and there around the world, but finding them was another story. Since these models were only sold domestically in Japan, there were never large stocks of parts overseas, and all the usual channels (authorized dealers and repair outlets) in Japan were 100% out-of-stock.
"Ditto" for several of the Denon direct-drive models.
What is worse, is that many of these chips are 96-prong (or something like that) devices with rows of connectors on all four sides, that require special "factory" desoldering tools to remove or install. In some cases, they were installed by these machines directly into surface-mount type boards, and the customary repair was to replace the entire board, because there is no way to safely remove the chip without damaging it. There are no more replacement boards for a good number of the models, and those that are left, are dwindling in number.
All the other components, such as resistors, capacitors, etc... are replaceable, and the TTs can be maintained for a long time, UNTIL either of those two critical IC chips go. When that happens, if there are still replacement chip stocks available, AND you can find someone (usually only the factory or their agents) who have the correct gear or replace it, OR if you can find a whole replacement circuit board (sometimes a necessity, sometimes just an option), then you can keep listening to your TT. But if the chips are gone, you have a beautiful doorstop...
He suggested that anyone owning any of the better 80s-era Japanese direct drives faces this problem sooner or later, and for some of the nicest models (those I mentioned above), the clock has essentially run out already, but on the good side, he said the best solution he knows of is to PLAY THEM OFTEN! Playing them frequently offers the best possibility to prolong their lives, especially in a humid climate like Hong Kong's.
Well, at least there was ONE good note (pun intended) in this rather depressing conversation!
We discussed the Rockport Sirius III that is sitting, unused and unplugged, in the corner of another showroom in the district. The people there say they know there is electronic circuitry inside which they don't want to "wear out", which is why they don't play it. I've suggested to them that playing it might be better than not playing it, but they seem not to believe it. Tommy chuckled and suggested that perhaps the thing had died BEFORE they unplugged it, and this is their face-saving excuse for not using it? I've heard that suggested by one other person before, so perhaps there is some truth to it(?).
I'm thinking now about strategies for trying to get and stockpile replacement parts/chips (if they are the replaceable kind)/boards for my DD TTs. For the GT-2000, I suppose buying a spare TT would be one approach, albeit an expensive one. I also have to find out what kind of chips are in the PL-L1, and if they can be found. Hopefully the same kind as in the later PL-L1000, as I'm sure if they were exclusive to the PL-L1, then they are basically unobtanium, by now. Even finding Pl-L1000 parts won't be too easy. And then there is the Sansui SR-929... And the Pioneer PL-C590. Hhhmmm, I suddenly feel a wee bit less confident in my collection of direct drive TTs!
Hope this didn't rain on the parades of any DD owners here. With careful maintenance (replace those aging caps and check the other stuff every decade or so, folks!), they may yet last for many more years, even decades. But once either of those critical two chips goes, cross your fingers that they are still available, or else you just became the owner of a very fancy doorstop!
Oh, and in case you think he had some commercial reason for saying all this, NO, he praises their absolute speed stability and great sound (as I said, he used them himself for years at home) and has sold the better Japanese DD tables alongside the better belt drives (incidentally, he had a couple of magnificent Micro Seiki thread drives there, one 1500 with gunmetal platter, another limited edition with gold-gilt platter) alongside other TOTL tables, including some DDs. No, I believe he was telling the sad truth. A truth I suppose we all know back in the deep recesses of the mind, but hate to have stated to our faces. The fact that he threw away two of Victor's all-time-best turntables because he was sure there was NO way to repair them any more... well, it just sickens me!
I think I'll start taking his advice, and playing MORE vinyl, to make sure all my DD TTs get enough of a workout to live longer! Maybe it will take my mind off of this train of thought.
Of course, I would probably last longer, too, with a little more exercise... "
Now if you own a vintage belt-drive or idler.......you face no such problems.
They are both readily fixed with parts available and no such reliance on electronics.
But great Direct Drives offer a speed accuracy and coherence which other drives can only dream of......so I guess we just live for the moment.....enjoy them whilst we can.......and hope for the best?
After all.......those that still work have lasted over 30 years now. What's another 30 for Japanese technology? :-)