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It's No Fun Being a Guru Anymore

I would be curious to hear everyone's opinion on this -- somthing that probably happens to all of you as often as it happens to me.

Years ago, when systems seems more oriented towards MUSIC, it was flattering and fun to help friends choose equipment. Choose music, choose equipment, sit down, enjoy.

Today, however, it just seems like a nightmare and fraught with potential problems. Or is it just me?

Last night, I visited a friend of a friends new apartment in mid renovation -- a beautiful pre-war high ceilinged apartment near Park Avenue in New York where he has happily spent a zillion dollars on everything.

And here is the exciting news on the state of his audio/video plans:

He is requesting:

1)bookshelf speakers in a study/library, approx 8x12

2)unobtrusive speakers in living room, possibly near ceiling and possibly with subwoofer, approx 14x20

3)a second pair of bookshelf speakers in a kitchen/den area, approx 18x20

Here's is where it gets interesting: (NOT!)

He thinks he can use a 10ish year old YAMAHA AVR-75 receiver and a similarly low end SONY DVD/CD/Video CD player to drive EVERYTHING.

And the dealer who gave him a $10,000 proposal has encouraged him!

So the proposed solution is:

Keep the existing yamaha components and add:

1)Fujitsu HD plasma screen in kitchen/den area
2)$900 flattish speakers that hang off the plasma screen
3)An $800 Denon A/V receiver to drive these speakers and possibly the second pair of bookshelf speakers in the kitchen/den area

4) Hundreds of $$$ more on stuff I've never heard of, including programming his remote to receive Timewarner cable, and an ARTICULATING arm to swing the TV off the wall and over the kitchen table. Am I just getting too old or is this a JOKE?

I would say $10,000 or more later, this will sound like CRAP, in EVERY ROOM.

Despite the cheesey garden variety home theatre "solution" there has been no mention of surround sound or a subwoofer for the plasma system.

So my first thought would be to listen to TV and DVD through a decent pair of proper speakers in just stereo and junk the flat speakers that mount on the TV.

But I really dont even know where to begin.

He is actually a nice guy with a nice wife and I would like to help, so if anyone has any ideas or advice, please let me know ASAP.
cwlondon
dekay's avatar
dekay
5,675 posts
 
CW:

Not certain about DVD players, TV's/Screens (I use a cheap Mintek DVD-1600 in our bedroom).

However, for the sound part your friend should check out the Yamaha Pianocraft mini systems. I'm familar with the 40 watt version, but recently read of a 50 watt model (Terry Cain of Cain & Cain mentioned it over @ AA).

The 40 watter is a compact/attractive/remote controlled system that sounds very nice. It will work in the 14 x 20 with near/on the wall speaker placement, but a larger room would be stretching things a bit too much, IMO.

The older 40 watt version, a friend's daughter uses, has extra inputs (DVD) and if I recall correctly it also has a sub out feature.

Having experimented with Hi-fi in kitchens over the years I always ended up preferring the random/chaos of radio and the sound of mono. Vintage Art Deco radios are attractive, but they also have a tendency to drift. I used a KLH Model 21 for years in this application, which is one of the nicest sounding table top radio's ever produced (even if it is SS:-).
cwlondon OP
1,210 posts
 
Yesterday, I called the dealer proposing this $10,000 mid fi setup, introduced myself and gently explained that I didnt wish to step on his toes, irritate him or get in the way.

I said I knew that there was "nothing worse than an 'expert' friend complicating a sale" etc, that I was not being paid to do this and that I only hoped we could "collaborate" and "compare notes" in the interest of helping my friend.

Guess what?

For at least 10 if not 15 straight minutes without even drawing a single breath, this guy unleashed a PT Barnum esque tirade about how he has been in the business for over 30 years, speaking to me as if I had never set foot in an audio store.

He paused in the end, only to CHALLENGE me to questions including:

Do you play a musical instrument (yes) what percentage of your music collection is classical (25%?) or jazz (20%?) trashing audiophiles and mentioning his affiliations with a long list of cheesey mid fi brands.

Funny of course, that although I play the piano myself, there seems to be an inverse correlation between musicianship and caring about high quality audio -- certainly true in his case!

I then politely stood my ground, reminding him that I had no commercial interest in this situation, but was simply trying to help a friend and that I might suggest a more simple, less feature and home theatre oriented solution for his needs and desire to listen to music throughout his apartment.

He actually said, in the end:

"If I tried to sell what I thought was right instead of what people think they want, I would never make a sale."

Unbelievable. And sad. Please help.
swampwalker's avatar
swampwalker
5,138 posts
 
Cw- "No good deed goes unpunished" has become my (more than somewhat cynical) credo. But ya know, I think that Slappy is pretty much right on the mark (how's that for a scary thought ;~)). Gently offer help, but if re-buffed, just let it lie.
slappy
903 posts
 
That salesman really sounds like a jackass.

Its too bad your friend diddnt hear that.

I think it might be a good idea to let him know of your experience with this salesman, and tell him you think you might be able to ensure he has a system he is happy about, but dont try to pressure him. If he decides to go with the salesman then so be it. I wouldnt worry about it much, but i certanly would not buy anything from that retailer anymore.

Basically ask him if he would like your advice on what to do. If he is your friend and knows of your passion for audio, he will probably listen. Im sure he does not want to spend 10k and get a system he is not happy about.
If he said he would like your advise, then gently guide him on what he should look for and let him make the final decisions. Be sure to really listen to what HE wants. If he wants an "Articulating Arm" then dont argue it with him.

If he doesent want your advice then dont worry about it. Less stress on your side and your consience is clear.

Ive had some good experiences with salesman in the past, and some real bad ones as well, which i find no reason to discuss with anyone on the 'gon cause i was attacked pretty heavily about it. For some reason several people on the 'gon find it perfectly appropriate for a salesman to take one look at me and tell me to go somewhere where i can afford the gear. im gonna drop that subject, either way, do what you can to help your friend but dont step on his toes.
unclejeff
1,313 posts
 
Leave it alone. the best you can do is try to get the best wires in the home that you can so that, no matter what, they can make changes at a later date.

Yes, you could ask them to gather together two or three of their favorite CDs and take them to a couple of high-end local stereo stores and ask them if they can hear the differance between what you are suggesting and what they are buying...but hey, don't worry. they have their own directions. Do they buy good wine?
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