Tale of the preamps


I ahave recently been bitten by desire to add greater detail to my system. I believe the musicality offered via Jadis JP80MC pre may be limiting frequency extremes and inner detail. I own CAT amps and Eidelon...I believe neither of these components are lacking in bottom extension nor well defined presentation. I have owned the Jadis for 5 years or so, with no desire to surrender the music for hi-fi. But....a friends system, Eidelons/Atmasphere MA1s/Wadia exposed an inner detail which gave birth to a new itch. The CAT ultimate has been strongly suggested, but some comments allude to a cerebral rather than visceral interpretation. Any suggestions, especially from those who may have heard the Jadis are appreciated. The world of give and take.
siddh
Steve: Other than Da Hong, whose modifications in my view change the character of the Jadis and may no longer be available (and may not be that well-executed, judging from at least two separate sources), I don't know of any modifiers of Jadis equipment. Andy's mods were expensive and probably voided any warranty I had left on the preamp, but it was well out of the warranty period anyway. The downside to them is that now, other than Andy, there are very few techs willing to work on the unit, because space inside is limited and Andy had to use a lot of it--it is certainly not neat and tidy. In theory this could also make it more susceptible to noise, although I haven't noticed that. The upside is better frequency extension at the extremes (this may be due to some Audio Note bypass caps he put in), a bit more transparency and a virtual elimination of the last bit of "electronic" sound that the unit had (which wasn't that much to begin with). The improvements on an objective scale were not cost-effective and certainly were no more than subtle (except perhaps in the additional bass extension), but I consider them worth it subjectively because, as a bit of an obsessive compulsive, I'm somewhat nuts I guess.

When you look inside the unit, you'll see that a lot of the capacitors and parts appear to be nothing special and could be replaced with better ones, but the danger there is that (in my view) the Jadis equipment in large part was designed by ear and when you change the parts you can change the character of the unit. I only agreed to let Andy do his mods because he assured me the character would not change and because he did them at my home (stayed over a few nights), we listened as he did them at various stages to be sure I was happy with the sound and he agreed to undo them if they were not to my liking. Without those conditions, I'd be hesitant to have your unit modified, and even then you'd have to weigh against that the loss of any remaining warranty you might have and the possibility that no one will want to service your unit if something goes wrong. I'd therefor advise you against modifying the unit--you might want to consider a JP200 instead, the one unit I'd consider to replace mine.

Unfortunately, I have no long running experience with the CAT Ultimate except on short demo at a dealer. Prior CATs impressed me, but more from the intellectual rather than emotional standpoint. If the design goal was as you noted above, it should be a great piece, and definitely worth an extended listen. But heed Greg's advice, make sure you don't lose what you like about the Jadis in exchange for improved resolution. Hope this all makes some sense.
If I'm you, I will add a pair of silver interconnect(Kimber KCAG) between the preamp/power amp to give the overall presentation a bit more transparent and detailed. Stay with the Jadis preamp, it is a very excellent preamp. It takes a lot of time to make the whole system sounds right. Switching preamp is not a very good method. As your music listening experience became more mature, you will find that the original Jadis's sound is the sound that you like the most..........
Siddh..I don't have experience with Jadis but I did once own and love a Cat SL1 MK3..and with careful tube rolling
you can probably get sound you are looking for from it..to my ears, the CAT was revealing but not analytical as some people say, very neutral presentation, not overly euphonic, a very hard peice of audio to critisize..the Ultimate can only be better..there are some who say that the pre and power should be of the same manufacturer..if I were in your shoes, I'd pick up a used CAT Ultimate (there is one on auction right now) before selling the Jadis and compare them side by side for a month or two, if the CAT dissapoints (which I doubt), you should get most or all of your money out of it.
Siddh, are you sure the added transparency you heard at your friend's home was not the result of the Atma-Sphere MA-1's? No intention to cast any doubts as the the CAT amps and Eidolons, but the MA-1's do have a tendency to be just a might transparent in their own right.
I had my friend, with the Atma-spheres drop by tonight. We listened and found the force...or better stated, the solidity, especially in the upper bass through midrange, more pronounced with the CAT/Jadis. In iteration, the definition and articulation does sound tampered with. Minutely muddied, but muddied none the less. As if, attaining the music AND the inner detail must maintain a state of juxtaposition. The physics involved may limit the two co-performing on the same stage. This may offer some explanation as to why some solid state has moved closer to tubes while some tube designs have evolved into units of greater detail.

Gregm, your point is well taken. The music should and must be the foremost objective. Unfortunately, when listening to live music, even when set way back from the orchestra, the body of the instrument's output clearly expresses the tiny nuances. It's not hidden, nor need it be searched for. It comes part and parcel....a most basic and essential element. So sacrificing the often taken-for-granted detail for over-all musicality, somehow creates an innate dichotomy.

Cable hopping I don't believe can resolve, but merely mask or re-interpret. Fine thought, Rushton. Not only are the amps an added variable, the front ends also differ. And, of course, listening rooms. Jman, your suggestion may be the course to pursue. Without trying the Ultimate it will stand only as theory.

Thanks to all. I am interested to learn of your theories regarding this apparently elusive "absolute sound"

Steve