Center speaker OR Full range as Center speaker?

Lej1447,

I guess it’s time to dispute Cinematic_Systems and explain to you what I meant. I’m 51 and have played music since grade school, so I’m biased towards quality. It has nothing to do with being negative, and certainly nothing to do with being limited in experience or expectations.

Nine or ten years ago I got into HT in a big way and it sounded pretty darn good:

Processor: Lexicon CP-1.
Left Front: Definitive Technology BP-20 driven by an Adcom GFA-555 bridged mono.
Right Front: Definitive Technology BP-20 driven by an Adcom GFA-555 bridged mono.
Center: Two Definitive Technology BP-10’s, one on each side of the TV, driven by an Adcom GFA-555.
Rear: Definitive Technology BP-10’s driven by an Adcom GFA-545.
Subs: Snell subs driven by an Adcom GFA-555.

Then I walked into a stereo store where they had set up a hi-end Krell stereo system running Dunlavy SC-IV’s. The singer sounded like he was sitting on a stool in front of me with his guitar singing to me. I traded and sold everything and bought that system. I don’t know how many times someone would ask me where my center channel was. I’d tell them that I didn’t have one, and inevitably they’d get up and look around and behind the screen for the center channel speaker, because they “knew” that it just had to be there because of the way the soundstage was.

It boils down to “Quality” over “Quantity”. I realized that for myself and most people, it’s easier to come up with the money for a piece or two here or there. But if someone was in the position in the beginning to lay down the cash for a really good stereo, they’d be surprised with what they’d have.

I realize the young kids in their cars with the “boom, boom, boom” rattling everything around them think they’ve got it, but if they were musicians I think they’d realize that had noise rather than music where you can point to the performers layered in a soundstage from left to right and from front to back. The same goes for really enjoying a movie.

Chuck

Krellman-

I do not doubt your observations and, in fact, I am not surprised by them. Using 6! bipolar speakers is a sure way to have amorphous imaging and, more than that, using 2 together as a center-channel is going to give you less specific of the center image than no center speaker. (Note, I did not say anything about the relative quality of the individual components compared to your Krell/Dunlavy system.)

Kal

Chuck,
I would love to have your system, but it will take me a long time before I get up to your par. I would love to be able to experience what you described, i.e. the singer sitting on a stool playing a guitar in front of you. I recognize and acknowedge your statement regarding the difference between the rattling noise and the musical bass. In this particular case, are we still discussing the center speaker for HT and DVD-A, or are we discussing primarily 2-channel music w/ redbook CD, unless you are suggesting to improve on the 2-channel system and play movie using phantom mode?

Personally, HT setup is much more financially feasible for me and my family at this point. We have the Fosgate pre/pro and Marantz amp to drive out HT system w/ dual sub. Room is well calibrated to avoid the boom boom. Of course, there is plenty of room for improvement. However,I wouldn't spend too much more. I rather spend money on acquiring a 2-channel system in a dedicated room. I stopped by a local hi-fi store and listen to the ML Ascent i. I love all the rigs that they have. I am now in love w/ the MCintosh tube amp, Jolida tube rigs, and huge biwiring cable from that store. B/c of the Ascent's capability and the ML CLS w/ Vandersteen sub, I am now obsessed with the ML Prodigy and possibly the Odyssey. However, that is another story after I won the lotto. Until then, sweet dream is my driving factor that compels me to show up to work each morning. Any suggestion regarding the full range center speaker setup?
In the mean time, I like to thank all the A'gon members who have taken the time to provide your inputs.

It's funny, when everyone was trying to find my 'missing' center channel speaker, it was actually before the days of DVD's and I had a nice Hi-Fi Quality VCR hooked up.

Once DVD's came in, I bought a simple but nice Pioneer DVD and with the Dunlavy SC-IV's, it was so clean people's jaws would drop, and the bass would shake the nicknaks off of my shelves in the room.

My B&W Silver Signature's don't have that kind of bass, of course, but the midrange is a lot more natural. Now that the kids are in college, my wife and I have actually started having dates once a week and going out to eat and to the movies, munching down on the popcorn, Milk Duds and Cokes.

My stereo/HT is more of just a stereo again.

Chuck

Krell man and Kr4, I concure and relate to your experiences entirely. I've sold Dunlavy in the past, as well as Mirage. You both understand what's happening by-enlarge there.
The Dunlavy using multiple woofers in a coherent time aligned array definitely reinforces the frequencies, and proves very fast, coherent, and solid in imaging, not to mention great dialog inteligibility. Thus my findings that these designs most often have an advantage over single driver designs vs, say Dappolito, Horns, THX, plannars(sometimes), etc. Also, active help. Nonetheless, the Dunlavy's indeed make a potent enough sound for movie mixes I've found. There's a lot to be said for that design.
Still Krell Man, may I strongly suggest crossing over the Dunlavy's at least at 65hz or 80hz, over to powered sub(s)!?
I could easily bottom out and distort even that efficient design SCIV speaker in my systems. And I found better to cross over to "active woofers". That was my finding anyway...which is consitant with other lesser efficient designs as well IME.
Anyway, I think you'll get better dynamic range and capabilities ultimiately that way. Some will find the bass and volume levels they chose adequate full range however with the SCIV's, and that's fine of course. Still, at closer to THX levels, you will reach limitations.
Would I use Dunlavy's like this for HT if needed? I would indeed. My only problem with Dunlavy's now-a-day's is matching drivers when they go south(if). That was the design of that speaker, matching tolerance drivers.