How much does rock-solid speed stability cost?

My guess is that an LP12 with the Origin Live DC motor control would fit the bill. A Linn that is set up correctly is difficult to beat for the dollars invested and the Origin Live is purported to be more accurate than the Linn Lingo power supply. Audiophiles love to hate them which works in your favor to drive the price down. You can afford a used LP12/Origin Live DC/Ittok/Shelter 501 and, set up correctly on the right stand, you'll be happy for years.

I wonder how much of your problem stems from off center holes in records.

Am in agreement with what others have written, but would like to suggest another view of this topic.

I'm curious: do you have absolute pitch? One of the definitions of AP is the ability to identify the names of the notes of a tone cluster played on the piano. If you do have absolute pitch it also may be very acute e.g. you are able to detect instantly the difference between a 440 A and, say, a 441 A. This ability is extremely rare.

Myself, I'm a professional musician with strong relative pitch. I rely much more on overtones and resonance to sustain a pitch. I do not possess absolute pitch.

At home I use a Linn LP12 with Lingo and find that it suits my need for resonance and to hear the effect of overtones much more than any other table I've tried. One of the overall effects of the Linn is that notes are more 'centered': this must have to do with speed stability and its ability to retrieve low level information (harmonics, attack, etc.) My CD player is an Audio Note CD3.1x, and I find it does much the same.

What about rhythm? Do you find you get more 'kick' out of listening to CDs than to LPs?

Also keep in mind that we all hear differently, and what you may be reacting to others may hear as 'lack of center'; miniscule changes of dynamics through the duration of a note (which others may perceive as very slight pitch changes); increasing/decreasing overtones throughout the duration of sounds (e.g. a long french horn note). From my experience, I've concluded that these subtleties are more apparent with analog sources, as opposed to their digital counterparts.

I'd also be interested to know whether or not you perceive pitch fluctuations when listening to different CD players, say mid-fi to extreme highend. If your ears are acutely sensitive to pitch variance, miniscule dynamic changes, presence/absence of overtones, you may notice the same effect from the very best digital setups. This obviously is a contentious statement, but I do think it's possible. Live music is full of these varying factors, but when we listen to live music (say a string quartet, symphony orchestra, or jazz group) we get much more information than any kind of recording can recreate. With live music pitch does fluctuate somewhat, as do the presence of harmonics, and minute dynamic variances, etc. however, they are not perceived so much because hearing live music is such a different all-encompassing, sensual experience. Nothing is like listening to live music. It's only when live music is recorded and then played back are these subtle 'imperfections' usually noticed. I've experienced this time and time again when in recording situations.

Many musicians are notorious for having inferior stereo systems in their home. I mean really bad. Stereophile and other magazines have interviewed musicians who owned what many audiophiles would consider appalling stereos. Yet they enjoy listening to recordings immensely. Perhaps some of the things I've discussed above have something to do with this fact.

You have brought up an interesting point, Nighthawk.

This is an interesting thread. I also have very strong relative pitch.

One problem I have had a lot of trouble with--and it was mentioned above by Ghostrider45--is off-center holes. It doesn't take much. This effect is most noticable when constant pitch instruments like the piano are playing.

The degree of pitch change increases (grows worse) as the needle approaches the center of the record since the fractional linear speed change causing this increases as the distance to the axis of rotation becomes smaller. So what can be a disconcerting suspicion at the begining of an LP grows into cause for leaping up in alarm to inspect for what the heck is going wrong.

I need to discard a few percent of the records I purchase due to off-center holes...some of them otherwise pristine Shaded Dogs (sob sob).

I have toyed with the notion of actually offsetting the axis of some of my rare LPs by enlarging the hole on one side to compensate. Haven't tried it yet, though.

A slightly bent spindle would also result in this type of periodic change in pitch.

To see if this non-axial rotation is a problem, put a piece of opaque tape on the lid of your TT as a visual reference. Then watch very closely to see if the arm and cartidge are moving slightly in and out as the record plays. It really doesn't take much (depending on how sensitive your are) and it can be hard to see without a fixed visual reference.

I am not that experienced in TT's but find SME's, Basis, and ClearAudio to be very acceptable as regards speed control. Unfortunately, they are also very expensive.

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughtful replies.

Twl, as usual, you are a fountain of useful information. Your explanation of cogging makes sense. I'll do some reasearch into DC motor-based tables. I'll also look into tables with heavy platters.

For those of you that commented on off-center holes, I see that occasionally, but not often enough to explain what I hear.

Violaguy, I am a former musician (trombone), though I haven't played in many years. I played in high school and college. I don't know if I have perfect absolute pitch or not but I'd say I have very good relative pitch, at least. I'm sure I could distinguish between A440 and 441. Thats about 1/8" on a trombone slide. A good trombone player is a lot more accurate than that - I'd say accurate to at least 1/32". I know what you mean about variations in dynamics and overtones. I love hearing the overtone beats of a piano chord, for example. That type of variation doesn't bother me at all. However, that's not what I'm hearing. I'm hearing real changes in pitch. I have heard variations in CDs but always assumed it was due to the master tape. Most CDs are fine. I've found the more overtones an instrument, or voice, produces the less likely it is to cause noticable flutter. It's the pure tones that get you.

From what you all are saying I think it's going to cost quite a bit to achieve the pitch stability I need. I'll keep my eye on the classifieds. (The SL1200 is going back to Crutchfield!)