2. cables
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Where can I get educated about cables?

I'm still relatively new to this "hobby" compared to most of you it seems, and I'm trying to learn as much as I can. I've finally gotten to the point where I am considering purchasing cables, both for IC's and speakers, but I don't know where to begin.

Here's the deal- I read alot of reviews, talk to dealers, and read threads both here and on AA, and while everyone genuinely seems to want to help, I hear alot of talk about "impedance" and "capacitance", "six-nines', etc, when they talk about various cables. Now, I'm not an electrical engineer (I'm a commercial HVAC tech by trade), but I do know a little basic electronics, and am comfortable with a wiring diagram, so I am familiar with these terms.

Ultimately, I'd like to understand how to choose a cable, and why. I'd like to know how a cables characteristics will affect the sound with my equipment, and I'd like to know what cabling changes to make if I change a different part of my system somewhere down the road. Please don't misunderstand me- I do not believe I will find the perfect combination by simply using a magic formula of some sort. I'm just looking for information on the basics to get me headed in the right direction so I can make an informed decision, and hopefully save myself some grief (and cash) along the way.

Against my better judgement, but as an example, I'll tell you that I have a Sonic Frontiers Line1, a Bryston 4BST, and PSB Gold i's. I borrowed some different IC's from a local dealer, and heard the differences between them. BUT WHY? I wanna know why! Why did cable "XYZ" sound different than cable "ABC"? And what if I changed preamps? Then what? Or my amp? This could get really expensive trying cable after cable after cable, without knowing what to look for or having a frame of reference to start with.

Please, if anyone knows a source of info, a book, a site, or an actual person who can help me, let me know. It would be greatly appreciated.

Lastly, if you have experience with my particular COMPLETE setup, not just the individual pieces, your input would probably benefit me here as well.

Thanks for your time.


subcoolman
bomarc
501 posts
 
If you want to lowdown on something, the people trying to sell it to you are not always the most impartial source of information. I'd recommend a book by Bruce Rozenblit called "Audio Reality." Rozenblit designs tube amps, and he's not in the wires-are-wires school. But he knows his engineering. He debunks a lot of what you'll read elsewhere. It's $30 on Amazon, and it'll save you hundreds.
subcoolman OP
17 posts
 
To everyone who has replied so far- Thank You (!) for your input! I really do appreciate it.

In reply to some issues- I'm not in a hurry. I understand it will take some time to find what I am looking for, but I'd rather get headed in the right direction from the start than head off blindly into the abyss. I already have two other expensive hobbies (a wife and a boat), and I really am not certain I can afford to just plunk my cash down and hope for the best.

Why do I think wires matter? To be honest, until recently I didn't. My old equipment wasn't revealing enough, and I always poo-pooed the audio press for their claims. Then I upgraded to what I have now, and my dealer talked me into a couple loaners. 'Nuff said.

Which leads me to this- Why do "they" print reviews with specs like "output impedance", and then expect me to understand why this matters? My God, in some reviews, "they" even tell you not to use this XYZ model with a certain type of (enter item here). Makes me wonder if my stuff will blow-up if I hook up to it. I'm serious here, people! How do I know whether my equipment, past, present, or future, will produce acceptable results with a given manufacturuers cables?

Somewhere I gotta believe is a list, written or not, which would state basic audio-electronic "truths", kinda like a "rule of thumb" list for beginners. Please note "truths" is in parenthesis- I understand that this is also a relative subject. Think about it this way- there are laws of physics that state that a given frequency will resonate in such and such a way in such and such and environment (think room treatments here, which I am addressing, by the way). I gotta believe there's info somewhere that will help me at least get a good start on selecting cables.

As for the sources noted in some replies, I apologize for not checking them out yet. I may have re-stated questions for which these sources may well be able to answer, but I wanted to post this first.

Thanks again, and my apologies for the length.
abex
322 posts
 
SCM
System sensitivity,not meaning measurements.but system components will have as much to do as with the results of the cable you use as the cable itself.There are no easy answers to the equation.This is where Impedances,ohms and watts come into play.

What I try to do is first look at the manufacture of the equiptment to see what they use if anything.Then resd reviews of both pro reviewer's and owner's at this site,other BB's or AudioReview.com. At audio review I try to look at asociated equiptment and what other stuff the owner has used to gage his\her experiences.

Next there are those that are designer's that post on a few BB's that give advice free of charge.John Risch,John Curl,Robert Crump,Steve Nugent(AudioEngr.),Dan Banquer who really are deeper than you'll ever want to be into the stuff.Great wealth of knowledge there.

Lastly there are sites that will explain all things pertaining to design's,gages,measurements and other topics.

Who knows it might open a new oppurtunity for you.

Nothing is easy in audio and for every one that says one thing there is a counter view.

It's not all rocket science ,but it can become an obsession.
Happy learning!It's a long road!
=====================================
Added info:
Your assertion of having wires so things will not blowup!
Good gear has been throughly tested and the engineer's are pretty involved with safety in that regard.As long as you do not physically get into a cabinet I highly doubt this will happen.Or if you change the value of a fuse and have the thing smoke is about the worst you can do.

To understand system matching read up on Ohms Law to get an understanding of the relationships between the different factors\relationships in regard to Power,Voltage,Resistance & Current.

Ohms Law
http://ohmslaw.com/ohmslaw.htm

Acoustics Definitions
http://www.sfu.ca/sonic-studio/handbook/index.html

Measurements & Testing Definitions
http://www.epanorama.net/links/measuring.html#impedance

There are also beginner's guides which I cannot find at the moment.

philefreak
423 posts
 
Subcoolman, Go down to your local Radio Shack and by their best ICs and speaker cables. Use you stock power cords. This will give you an idea of how your systems sounds stock. Do your system matching and the synergy matching with these cables. Then you can can play around with other ICs and power cords to get your final tweaks.The problem is,with cables, that you never finish. It's always a journey of this new design or that new design, or the latest rave here or there. But it's all fun and just another day in the life of an audiophile.
psychicanimal
1,738 posts
 
"Cables, power conditioning, vibration control, and room teatment (or lack there of) will make or break your system."

Those are very wise words by Tweak1. I strongly adhere to those principles. Work on room treatment first, because it will allow you to hear right--then you will be in a position to make better choices. Then on power conditioning. Clean and stable power will allow your gear to work properly. Vibration will ruin soundstaging and the music's PRAT. You might then try to use very expensive power cords & interconnects to compensate for lack of soundstage and clean power--BIG mistake.

As for the Radio Shack interconnects, their best are a new model and not that cheap. Also, they use ferrite cores for "RFI filtration"--not a good idea. Their cheap ones are really really good for the money and I use them in my video system and for my little sister's system (cooked on a Mobie).
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