What's wrong with classical music on vinyl?

Albertporter...Of course not all sonic characteristics can be measured, but some can. I have heard it said, as a general statement, that vinyl playback has separation as good as digital. For your particular cartridge, to my surprise, that appears to be almost true, but it would be quite unwise (IMHO) to tell newcomers to vinyl that they can expect separation equal to digital. Or background noise. To obtain your cartridge you need to get on a six month waiting list, as well as having several grand to spend. Few guys will do this.

As I have said a number of times, I think that 25dB separation is good enough for music anyway, so what are we arguing about? I happen to think that vinyl playback can stand on its own merits without making technical claims that don't stand up to objective study.

The problem comes from blanket statements that infer that ALL vinyl playback is noisy, contains pops that "must be listened through" and that the bass is summed and therefore "inferior" somehow.

All that talk about defects would lead a newcomer to the conclusion that ALL LP playback is a disaster. There are many fine turntables on the market and many great cartridges that mate up well with them. I agree that CD has convenience on its side (not to mention being able to play in the car) and is always free of noise. Analog, particularly LP, requires more work, but can be just as free of noise and distraction.

When I say free of noise, I'm not talking about some machine specification, rather to real life experience of placing a CLEAN LP on a good quality turntable and listening to music at levels that are safe for our hearing (approximately 88 to 90 DB, at 14 feet in my room).

In my system and everyone in my music group who I have listened with, that is sufficient "room filling music" and usually ZERO noise or pops. The other night we were actually discussing this topic and we consciencely listened for flaws, just to see if we were fooling ourselves.

In four plus hours of listening to everything from Rock to Bluegrass and Classical to Blues, we had one LP that had pops about 15 seconds into the first track. Otherwise the evening could have been mistaken for all CD playback (except that I prefer the sound of analog).

Everyone in my group has good turntables, SME, VPI, Basis, Walker, Lenco, Linn and Versa Dynamics (to name a few). All these are capable of pulling off this "miraculous" stunt, provided the software is clean, the cartridge and arm are good quality and all the settings are correct.

Analog is a lot of work, but once done, there is a vast library of great software available, some at very reasonable prices. If this is too much trouble or you don't want to spend the money, or dislike having to "feed" two formats, that is fine. I have never said everyone should convert.

What I have claimed all along is that analog is more satisfying musically. Music is the only reason I own my system, otherwise it's just a bunch of junk taking up space in the living room.

El, the cartridges I mentioned (sorry about the Ortofons) related only to channel separation -- not sound. Regarding sonics, I like Allaerts, the bigger (&expensive) Clearaudio & the two common Shelters. I used to use a VdHul MC2 and a Grasshopper back in the old days. I'm now using a Clearaudio Insider. Not very indicative -- I get along with most cartridges ever since I acquired a good TT+arm combo.

Practically I've found that much of the cartridge's performance is directly related to the arm (obvious, but it took me a long time to realise) rather than its specs.
Sorry I can't be more informative (or opinionated?). Cheers

Albertporter...I think we are coming to an agreement! I should not have implied that ALL vinyl playback is noisy and inferior to digital. You should not have implied that ALL vinyl playback is quiet and superior to digital.

We agree that to achieve satisfactory results the user must spend a good deal of money and effort, not only on the playback equipment, but on the LPs and the equipment used for their care. Also, I recognize that extreme measures which few can justify, can achieve superb results.

The original poster, Sufentanil, has a problem with LP background noise, and his experience is more common than you would like to believe. I agree with his thought that perhaps CDs would be the practical solution. You also have a solution to Sufentanil's problem, but is it practical? That's up to him, and his bank account.

Dear Gregm: *** " , I'm not sure that certain specs are misleading or that they should be waived altogether... " ***

I think you are right. There are some specs that are critical in the sound reproduction of any audio system, example: RIAA equalization deviation or amplifier output impedance.

*** " Specifications have almost no value in determining whether a product sounds good or not " ***

Albert you are right. The specs can't tell us how it will be the sound, but some specs like those on my examples are specs that any one that take care about music and about music reproduction have to take in count seriously before buying an amplifier or a phono preamp. Those specs can tell us which will be the " behavior " of the amp/phonopreamp that we choose.
The specs subject is a very complicated issue. The important point is to know which specs really count in the quality of the sound reproduction of an audio item, like in my spec examples.

BTW, the problem with Eldart is that he don't know about and Eldart this is one of the reasons why I know for sure that you are an inexperience audio people.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.