Room Treatments added, with negative effects..

To Pbb,

Yes, I know how fast sound travels and have studied acoustics enough to know why nearfield is a valid method of reducing the effects of reflected sound.

It is quite obvious you don't understand the "precedence effect" and how it works.

It is also obvious that you don't understand the differences between direct and reflected sound and how the ear/brain interprets them.

Just so you completely understand my position, I suggest using reasonable room treament to reduce reflection to a minimum and listening nearfield to reduce exposure to what is left.

And the speed of sound really has nothing to do with nearfield listening or reflected sound since the moment sound hits something its amplitude is adjusted down, by absorption and dispersion.

When a sound hits an object part of it is reflected in a dispersive pattern, obviously in a different time/phase domain and some of the energy is absorbed (turned to heat energy)

The sound from the speaker that travels directly to us does not suffer from this, and is what your brain takes as real and if the amplitude is adequate, it takes precedence when the brain interprets the sound.

The resulting mismash of sonic haze from reflection/dispersion is no match if one is listening nearfield.

Maybe if I make this simple you'll understand.

Take a flashlight and set it atop your speaker. Turn off all the lights in the room and notice that in your listening postition the light shine on your face and some of the light disperses to the side walls, in fact it gives "low" light to all the room.

The beam in your face is direct. The one at the wall is reflected/dispersed. The fact that the light is traveling at the same speed does nothing to reconstruct the reflected light and make it a threat to the direct light.

Sound has the same properties, just at lower frequencies.

In a room, your goal is to reduce the reflected and maintain the direct.

So maybe you use Bose 901s and this doesn't mean anything, cause your listening to mostly reflected sound anyhow.

I don't know what experience you have in setting up rooms, but if you think you need to use headphones for the best sound, it would seem not to many.

Don't overlook the very interesting ideas on speaker placement from Audio Physic itself. I don't have Virgos, but I did end up with a setup essentially consistent with the AP approach. This should be your starting point, as it intends to eliminate the room as much as possible. Then you can experiment with treatments, if necessary, to deal with what's left. Check out their website.

Outlier -- that's a good system you have there. Try placing the speakers 60 degrees apart (from listening position) at a position where the Virgo toe-in is b/ween 70-72 degrees (i.e. speakers parallel, facing you, is 90d).
That's (allegedly) the Virgo system testing position. I've tried it in a rectangular room & it's good. Cheers

Hi Folks:
Thanks again for all the additional suggestions. I have the Virgos set up based on Audio Physic recommendations, although not their ultimate preferred position (which is 50% the way into the room), but rather just 25% into the room from the back wall, and 25% away from the side wall (the room is not a dedicated listening room, so I need to compromise a little). I could experiment further with the toeing though. Seating position is almost against the back wall. I'll try the side wall absorbtion suggestion when I get a chance - will need to make the panels though, as there is no wall to attach them to in the appropriate area of the side wall (a corridor on one wall, and a wall of full length windows/ curtains on the other side wall). I guess the idea there would be to minimize side echo/distortions on the sound, allowing the ear to focus on the primary/first sound waves which come directly from the speaker?? Seems reasonable, if that's the logic. I can try and experiment with tube traps later, but my room characteristics make that difficult - the door opens on the far left of the room (preventing the addition of a tube trap there because it would be an obstruction in that corner). Other far corner is bookshelves on either side of the corner (probably good defraction anyway). Near left corner is desk/PC etc, and near right corner is bed. Hence, no good places for tube traps (in corners anyway). Center of ceiling is an overhead fan, so not good for any treatments there, but I guess I could put some before or behind the fan (would absorbtion be of any use there, or would it cause more problems?) Anyway, thanks again for all the great input. Getting the room right is challenging. To answer an earlier question - I don't feel I'm trying to solve any apparent problem with the sound. Rather I just want to get the most out of my room and improve the sound if possible. The sound is absolutely amazing from my perspective - I guess I'm always trying for better though, as I'm sure we all are.
Cheers.

Bombaywalla:
I assure you that I wasn't suggesting that your advice was incorrect in any way. Consider my comments an addendum to yours, in case Outlier wanted to use Tube Traps. I've seen them placed wrongly in many rooms. Even reviewers install them wrong, as when Tom Miiller of TAS had RoomTunes in his room and wrote an article about the designer coming into his room and completely changing their position. Also,in an old issue of TAS, HP averred that the Tube Traps were helpful but that the instructions were not. Moncrieff's article is the best one so far.