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Walking that fine line: What would you do ?

I recently installed an amp on loan from a friend in one of my systems. We swapped amps just to "compare notes". I had an amp that he wanted to hear and vice-versa. The fact that we are a couple of States apart makes it hard to do first hand comparisons with each other, so we have to be selective, especially with amps. Between the shipping costs and the potential damage, this is the first time that we've done this. If we were both happy with the results, we were simply going to swap amps and compensate the differences in cash.

As it turns out, i like the amp quite a bit. It seems to be a good match for the preamp and speakers that i'm using it with. There is only one "problem". Whereas the system has always sounded very musical with good accuracy ( hard to achieve ), i've now moved up a notch on the "accuracy" scale. I'm now hearing a little deeper into the discs. While most would call this a step in the right direction in terms of being "revealing", i'm beginning to think that it is "annoying" and "distracting". Don't get me wrong, the amp / system sound quite good, maybe the best it ever has. It is not "etched" or "analytical" by any means. I could use all of the superlative's to describe what i'm hearing, but i've now got one nagging problem.

I can now hear just how much the engineers are "twistin' knobs" on several recordings that previously sounded "warm and sweet" i.e. very enjoyable with no distractions. One in particular is Diana Krall's Love Scenes. On some songs, you can easily hear the faders come up as she begins to sing and drop down as she stops. This is evident as the noise floor increases and you hear more hiss. When the mics are open, you have less of a "black background" between musical notes from the instruments. On some of the other songs, they simply leave the mic open most of the time and you hear hiss throughout most of it. On a few others, the leave the mic open, then fade it in a few spots, open it back up, etc... Some of this was obvious before, but not anywhere near the extent that it is now.

While most of us would not consider this a big deal, it kind of gets annoying after a while. To me, it's kind of like looking for a smaller hidden picture within a much larger picture. Once you find it, it is all that you can concentrate on. How you could've missed it for all that time is beyond you. So it is with this system now. In other words, these "small details" now distract me from the "big performance" taking place.

Has anybody else run into a similar situation and what did you do ? I'm open to suggestions as i'm kind of twisting and turning on this one. I like the amp a lot, BUT.... Sean
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sean
sugarbrie
3,854 posts
 
I had a similar experience but a different result. I have nothing against my system. What I have found is some recordings that I liked with my old "budget audiophile" system, now sound like crap on my what I'll call my "Upper Mid-Fi" system. I can hear when recordings have been processed to enhance the sound. What sounded full and rich before, now reveals that they added Echo. On other recordings the orchestra balance is off because they boosted the midrange so it sounds good in the car and on a boom box.


I advise staying away from the current crop of classical DG reissues under the "DG Originals" label. I have been slowing replacing the ones I have with earlier releases that were simply the original LP analog recording transfered to CD with no changes. They sound a lot better on my newest system. (or I try to find the LP.) Some new EMI reissues have the same problem. The ones on London Decca are great!!

blkadr
739 posts
 
Detail is good, but it sounds like you have too much of a good thing. Try playing with different cables. I hope you can regain your balance.
cornfedboy
1,645 posts
 
sean: sometimes, i think, it's better being ignorant. you hear the faders because you know what faders are and how they are used. you know that the noise floor is affected by the mic level, so you can perceive it when it changes. these effects may be "getting in your way" because you've not really experienced them before, at least in the system you've described. eventually, i think, you may be able to "enjoy" the work of recording engineers if it's well done. good recordings may be likened to well-edited movies. some such movies (e.g., "run lola run") employ obvious, in-your-face techniques in an artistically satisfying way; others (e.g., "almost famous") employ more subtle but also satisfying editing tricks. the problem with this analogy, of course, is that most recordings are engineered for playback on the radio or less-than-sota systems rather than for the world to see in 70mm. there are, tho, some classic examples of recordings done carefully on primitive equipment that are gems, especially on the most "revealing" of systems.

there is, indeed, a fine line between "musicality" and "accuracy." i remember listening to the first generation of wadia and theta dacs, when they played a monthly game of leap-frog. what impressed me, at first, about this generations of digital devices was the way they took the edge off of previously unbearably bright discs and made them tolerable. as dacs and transports improved, we learned that the earlier sota products had taken the edge off of EVERYTHING. i've just bought another in a long list of dacs i've owned. it's a boulder 1012. after months of listening to this product loaned to me off-and-on by my audio dealer and best friend, i've found that, to my ears, it combines better than anything else i've yet put into my system those ephemeral qualities of musicality and accuracy that seem so often at odds and are at the heart of your query. i applaud you for your efforts to do inexpensively what i haven't the patience or, likely, knowledge to accomplish. you have realized a conundrum some have waited many more years and spent much more money to comprehend. -cfb
drewfidelity
178 posts
 
Sean,
This type of issue comes up every time I add a different component into my system. The root of the problem is an inability to be satisfied with whatever components are in the current system. The question that I would ask would be, "Does this change make me listen for specific noises or does it make me listen to the music as a complete entity?". If it made me listen to the music as a complete entity then I would consider it an upgrade. If it made specific sounds more apparent then I would not make the change. This new philosophy has helped me enjoy my system more than any new component has in quite a while. Good Luck.
sean OP
6,231 posts
 
I've been at this stage before, but never to the point of having SO much of both aspects of sound reproduction ( musicality and accuracy ) at he same time. It usually either leaned one way ( musical ) or the other ( analytical ) to some degree.

I did have this system to a point where every recording that i put on it sounded VERY good and extremely "pacey". You could not help but want to at least tap your fingers and toes or more literally shake, dance and shout when listening. I could go from swooning over Diana Krall to stomping with Monster Magnet with ease. The system literally seemed to have "life" in it. Like the "tinkering idiot" that i am though, i kept substituting / trying out things with the hopes of making it "even better". I monkeyed with it so much that i forgot what components / cables i had where. As such, i'll probably never be able to get back to that specific combo.

That system probably did not have the resolution that it does now, but it was SO musical that i wouldn't have cared. Personally, i would rather be swept away by the music and sacrifice some of the very tiny details than vice-versa. If i can get this system back to where it was or somewhere very close, i HAVE learned my lesson. LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE and KEEP A LOG BOOK !!!!! Until then, i'm going to keep trying. I've got more discs to listen to before i pass final judgment on this amp. Sean
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PS... Sugarbrie, i agree about the reverb / hollowed out effect. I've noticed it before on some specific components with some being more pronounced than others. I always backed away from combo's that made this aspect of the recording so prominent. How many otherwise excellent performances were ruined by inept production and engineering ?!?!?!

Abstract: I hear ya. That is one reason why i have several very different systems set up within the house. Not always convenient to have to run between them to listen to different discs, but at least i have that option.

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