Tubes vs Solid State - Imaging, Soundstaging, 3D

Rayooo, that coloration you call in the midrange is not a coloration to me at all. I could say the same thing for the less color or lean character of the solid state amp and call that a coloration as well. The whole point is to portray the instruments as life like as possible and if that is a coloration then live instruments with their beautiful rich tone is a coloration as well. I don't know why a lot of people fight this very issue, perhaps they don't go to live classical concerts or to jazz clubs. Whatever the reason I'm glad you discovered tubes and all I can say is enjoy.

Michaelkingdom
In my experience, SS always seems to image more sharply and offer the deepest, clearest field....

I am using an Octave V40se with Svetlana Winged C EL34s. The Gold Lions were reissues in a Cary SLI-80 signature.

To the extent that it may be safe to generalize, given that there will inevitably be exceptions, my perception has been that the prevailing viewpoint among experienced audiophiles is that a particular strong point of tube amplification tends to be imaging and dimensionality. And that has certainly been my experience, and the experience of several of the others who have responded.

We can only speculate as to why your experience has been the opposite. Perhaps the speakers you have used with the two tube integrateds are not ideal matches for tube amplification, as was suggested earlier. Also, the Octave amplifier is unusual in that it provides only a single output tap, which is ostensibly suited to a wide range of load impedances, but who knows what tradeoffs that might entail with any given speaker.

Also, do you feel confident that your combination of speaker positioning, listening position, room configuration and acoustics, and the radiation patterns of the speakers you have used with the tube amps is conducive to good imaging? One speculative possibility that occurs to me is that if those factors in your particular setup are not conducive to sharp and well defined imaging, the reduction in dimensionality and image size that may occur with many solid state amps relative to many tube amps may be compensatory.

Regards,
-- Al

I have owned two tube cd players including my previous modded Ayon CD-5s which I used as linestage paired with a Boulder 1060. I also rolled the factory tubes with NOS mil-spec tubes. Tubes certainly provide midrange lushness, sound holographic & are delicate with strings, female vocals, jazz etc. Properly isolated no doubt a good tube linestage can do all that. I must say how pleased I am however moving from tubes to my current Vitus SIA-025. I am hearing the same richness I enjoyed with the Ayon and with only about 30hrs on my amp, speakers & most of my cables & with my S5's temporarily sitting on carpet swabs (without any feet fitted), the soundstage is already impressive. Once my system reaches 500hrs & I put some Stillpoints under my speakers, I should have a better idea of the sound. But for me, there is life after tubes.

One point that I have found undeniable over the years is that a rather large majority of speaker designers use robust solid state amplification. The reason could be as simple as tubes begin to degenerate the moment they are turned on and by comparison, solid state is more stable or constant for comparative listening and measurement purposes.

Another area of the audio industry were the preferable stability of solid state is used predominantly is in recording and post production studios. It's my experience that heavy handed producers can suck the life out of a recording in post. The experienced producers actually create the sound stage you're comparing by using discreetly recorded tracks mixed to place their location. The depth of the stage can come from many combinations of reverberation, compression, and digital manipulation.

Regardless, our combination of room and components is what defines the stages end result. As always in this hobby everything matters and the exact same stuff won't sound the same in a different room.

To quote my favorite Bartender, "So, what's it gonna be today?"

Tubes degenerate very slightly over time and there is no significant audible change until they wear out, conventional (or convenient) myths notwithstanding. Tubes are more fun, and tube amp owners are usually better looking people likely due to the fact that they are having more fun. The one exception is that tube amp owners may have singed fingers from trying to dust around their tubes when hot. Harmonic distortion content is the primary difference tonally between tube and SS amps (2nd order, 3rd order, lunch order), and note that SS amp advertising hype says "tube like" exactly 37 times more often than tube amp hype says "SS like." The biggest advantage of tubes is the ability to enjoy "tube rolling" as it is the rare SS amp owner that says, "Marge, I'm heading out to the transistor store to score a set of Mitsubishis for the Onkyo." My tube amp images so well I've actually gone through what I thought must be the Carnegie Hall exit only to fall into my hot tub.